got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

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Big Mike Socal Muniz
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got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby Big Mike Socal Muniz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:08 am

Got pulled over today after the show and got pulled over by LAPD. Got a ticket for Exhaust modified, and modified emissions. My car is a 1973 and is smog exempt...is this just a stupid cop that does not know that? Oh one more thing... on the back of the ticket there is a sticker that said: state referee certification required no officer sign of... anyone know a leanient referee;-)
Big Mike Muniz
73 TE27 w/monster port 12A roadrace car.
73 TE27 RHD LEVIN "L'L MANGO"
72 RHD late model Truneo
72 RHD rare early Trueno
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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby Deuce Cam » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:58 am

I'm not an expert on the law so take this with a grain of salt...

Just because the car is emissions exempt doesn't mean it's legal to remove emissions equipment or modify the exhaust. It's still California.

Regardless, I wouldn't take the car to a REF without knowing the law first, or at least getting opinions from others that have went through the same thing. Who knows, a REF might have the power to remove exemption status. It's not worth the gamble on the knowledge of a single street cop imo.

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby kendallspower » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:12 am

Bummer. You seem like a super nice guy and not a kid. Funny how they ticketed an "old guy" (Im old too). Did you have your foot in it? Did they pop the hood?

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Big Mike Socal Muniz
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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby Big Mike Socal Muniz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:15 pm

Nope, I just pulled out from the show. Saw the cop in front of me. Driving slow, then he pulled to the side and let me go around him. About to enter the freeway and that's when he pulled me over. And yes he had me open the hood. I thought no big deal, I'm smog exempt. So I signed the ticket and I was on my way home. I told my buddy that was with CHP about what happened and he informed me that even though my car is exempt for smog check every 2 years. My car still needs to retain the federal mandated emission equipment that the car originally had. In my case, my car should still have an air pump, spark arrestor, charcoal canister, and fuel return vent. And if you have an engine swap, all the emission equipment for that vehicle year smog equipment must also be installed. I'm screwed!
Big Mike Muniz
73 TE27 w/monster port 12A roadrace car.
73 TE27 RHD LEVIN "L'L MANGO"
72 RHD late model Truneo
72 RHD rare early Trueno
82 Porsche 928 Boeing powered "Jet Car"
96 Twin Turbo alcohol Pro Street Impala SS

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby StyleUkno » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:16 pm

Damn, I really cant provide any info on what you asked but Luis and I saw you get pulled over. **** sucks man.

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby SidekickChuck » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:19 am

Sucks to hear that Mike. Your cop buddy is correct. Smog exempt status keeps you from having to test every two years, but emissions equipment that were present on the motor for that particular type have to be on in order to be road worthy.

Dont know what to recommend at this time, but I would continue to talk to your cop friends and possibly shops that you trust in order to come up with a plan. Im honestly surprised this is the first time you have been stopped for such a ticket. But there has to be a way to get it taken care of without any drastic measures.


Good luck to you. I will ask around as well.
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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby CFROST » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:56 am

I'd take that in to a judge, you'd be surprised how often cops don't actually know the law but just write tickets for stuff.

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby trdtureno86 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:31 pm

Don't let a 1957 chevy BEL AIr with drag tires and a blower pull up next to you because they will give a guy like that a big thumbs! What smog?

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby SNOOZ » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:51 pm

i think you can just pay the fine and not have to ref it

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby rx729 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:34 pm

I left during the award ceremony to avoid the traffic jam and the police. Have your buddy at the CHP sign it off and call it a day, Sucks you had to go through it with a smoged exempt car...

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby mikeyee » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:18 pm

Iirc, the ref only checks if the smog equipment stuff is all there and working, they dont do a sniffer test anymore.

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby SidekickChuck » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:16 pm

He's got a Bridgeport rotary setup for race, it won't pass inspection and the ticket says it can't be signed off. I have heard you might be able to pay the fine. But I've never known anyone to do that. Hope you can.
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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby SidewaysGts » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:33 am

Big Mike Socal Muniz wrote:Got a ticket for Exhaust modified...


It is not, and read again, NOT illegal to modify your exhaust, at least not on its own. At least last I looked into it.

THE SHORT VERSION
The law can be summarized as stating that your car must have a muffler on the exhaust system that is not bypassed ANYWHERE in the system (ie open atmospheric waste gate? illegal), and does not exceed a specific dB rating. The dB rating is measured with your car sitting in neutral holding the rpms at 3/4s of the engines max rpm, and can not exceed 95 at its highest.

So no, an aftermarket muffler on its own is not illegal- That is unless it breaks any of these rules. IF im recalling the law correctly, id personally get that cops badge number and file a complaint. It seems trivial I know, but complaints do actually hurt an officers career IF theyre warranted. Giving out an improperly issued ticket is one of them.

THE LONG VERSION

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... 7150-27159

27150. (a) Every motor vehicle subject to registration shall at all
times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and
properly maintained to prevent any excessive or unusual noise, and
no muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped with a cutout, bypass,
or similar device.

27151. (a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor
vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted
by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance
with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits
established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5

(b) For the purposes of exhaust systems installed on motor
vehicles with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less
than 6,000 pounds, other than motorcycles, a sound level of 95 dbA or
less, when tested in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers
Standard J1169 May 1998, complies with this section.

Double check everything, I am NOT a lawyer- But this is how I understood the law.

As for the emissions crap? Ya youre boned on that one.

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby Big Mike Socal Muniz » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:00 pm

SidewaysGts wrote:
Big Mike Socal Muniz wrote:Got a ticket for Exhaust modified...


It is not, and read again, NOT illegal to modify your exhaust, at least not on its own. At least last I looked into it.

THE SHORT VERSION
The law can be summarized as stating that your car must have a muffler on the exhaust system that is not bypassed ANYWHERE in the system (ie open atmospheric waste gate? illegal), and does not exceed a specific dB rating. The dB rating is measured with your car sitting in neutral holding the rpms at 3/4s of the engines max rpm, and can not exceed 95 at its highest.

So no, an aftermarket muffler on its own is not illegal- That is unless it breaks any of these rules. IF im recalling the law correctly, id personally get that cops badge number and file a complaint. It seems trivial I know, but complaints do actually hurt an officers career IF theyre warranted. Giving out an improperly issued ticket is one of them.

THE LONG VERSION

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... 7150-27159

27150. (a) Every motor vehicle subject to registration shall at all
times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and
properly maintained to prevent any excessive or unusual noise, and
no muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped with a cutout, bypass,
or similar device.

27151. (a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor
vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted
by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance
with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits
established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5

(b) For the purposes of exhaust systems installed on motor
vehicles with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less
than 6,000 pounds, other than motorcycles, a sound level of 95 dbA or
less, when tested in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers
Standard J1169 May 1998, complies with this section.

Double check everything, I am NOT a lawyer- But this is how I understood the law.

As for the emissions crap? Ya youre boned on that one.


The thing is even though I have 2 mufflers and one resonator, my car is still louder that 95dB...

Thanks for everyone’s input...
I actually got to talk to a state referee last week, a friend of a friend asked him if he would at least look at my car and give me some advice on what I should do...
So I towed my car there (that was his instructions), I put an air filter on the carburetor instead of the velocity stacks (sometimes what most people hear that they think is the exhaust on a hopped up carb'd engine is actually the noise from the carb/s). Once I got the car off the trailer I fired it up... I looked towards referee's direction and saw him shaking his head, I pulled up in the garage and he told me shut it off. There were 2 other guys there but I was told they were students (they had a smile from ear to ear). I opened my hood and he took a look around and told me that I had a lot of work to do. He advised me that ANY motor swap without a state referee certification is not legal in California no matter what year, JDM engines only are also not legal, All motor swaps should have the emissions equipment from that year vehicle (vehicle the motor came out from) and transferred to the vehicle, All emissions have to be functional. If someone swapped an engine off of a 2010 or newer vehicle in a smog exempt vehicle, then that vehicle is now subject to bi-annual smog check and must comply to the emission standard for that year vehicle (in some cases the fuel tank may have to also be installed in the swapped vehicle/or at the very least, the fuel tank venting system). No vehicle can exceed the 95dB exhaust noise limit. This is not just at idle, the vehicle will be held on a certain RPM and the dB meter will be 20" at a 45 degree angle from the exhaust tip.

Now about the citation. If you just pay the fine that is mailed to you by the city, Your name will be off their books as being paid (so no warrant would be issued). But the car is still not certified for road worthiness till it is inspected and signed off by a state ref,. What that means is, If you get pulled over again and the officer finds out that your car has not been certified, then your car will be impounded. Other people have suggested selling the car and telling the judge that it was going to cost too much to get the car compliant so you just sold the car... The judge will then dismiss the charge and you are scott free. The person that you sold the car to will then inherit the problem and would not be able to register the vehicle.

So the state referee gave me a few options....
*Find a bone stock 12A motor with all of its emissions intact and install it in my car then proceed to the process to have it certified for my car (the stock motor will also take care of the exhaust noise citation). ***the 12A has to be form an early model Mazda so there are less emission bullshit on it to transfer over***
*Find a stock 2TC install it and install all the emission that came with vehicle year (air pump, charcoal canister, pcv, & spark arrestor).
*Pay the fine and place the vehicle in Non Operation status till ready to fix the problems.

Oh, then he saw my electronic exhaust bypass/cutout! He said that's also not legal, and he will let me get caught on that violation on my own...

So there is a lot to think about...BTW while I was there, there was a 1974 Chevy LUV with a small block 350 that also got cited for the same violations that I got. He failed the test and will come back later with needed corrections.

This F'kn sucks!
Big Mike Muniz
73 TE27 w/monster port 12A roadrace car.
73 TE27 RHD LEVIN "L'L MANGO"
72 RHD late model Truneo
72 RHD rare early Trueno
82 Porsche 928 Boeing powered "Jet Car"
96 Twin Turbo alcohol Pro Street Impala SS

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby bnicolas » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:31 pm

hey big mike i saw your car on youtube and its bad ass

what they are trying to do is charging you a criminal act when you go to court

but the question is who is complaing? no one cop! no they cant cause its conflict of interest you can sue them for treason...

just remember if you go to court someone is suing you

there are 4 ways you can go to jail this is criminal

if you killed someone
if you destroy a property
if you had broken a contract
if someone complained about you

what you have is an infraction which is you have to pay for penalty if you admit

forget about the law emission bs you will be surprised if i tell you any of the ticket police give is a scam
that doesnt apply to us you know why? its because its the law of commerce and you are not driving your are travelling
every ticket they write are for commercial vehicles only for example people who drive for a living ups, food trucks, delivery like newspaper etc etc
here is my number 714 737 8874

or you can find a lawyer that you see on tv or ads and pay at least $1000
and they can fight for you 2nd option and dismissed your case

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby MStoving » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:37 pm

If you end up wanting to go 12a, Tri-Point Engineering in Chatsworth has an early model 12A that they might sell.
Their number is (818) 348-5385.

Good luck to you, was a pleasure seeing your car at Nisei.
The best part about getting wet is getting dry.

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby Turtle » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:24 am

Why specifically a 12a? You wouldn't be able to swap in an emmissions compliant 4ag and proceed to undergo the inspection?

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby Wil8115 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:01 pm

pretty sure '73 2T only had a PCV. good luck on the 12A.
hypocrite pigs. :roll:

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby Big Mike Socal Muniz » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:36 am

Okay, so yesterday was my appointment with the state referee...My car failed! no surprise there. I asked him if he could at least do the exhaust noise test so I could at least get that signed off...well well, to my surprise, he said he can't even do that. Since it has the wrong engine, this also means it has the wrong exhaust! So now it's up to the court to decide what they want me to do. Converting back to the 2T is out of the question. this car has been heavily modified, all fuel lines are different, engine cross member no longer has the mounts, transmission cross member is different, etc., etc... After the inspection was done, we kinda hit it off, so we started talking more about all these kind of citations that are being handed out to older cars. He told me that he and other State referees have been helping local law enforcement build a task force to identify violations properly (under order from Sacramento). They are given a list of things to look for, this could be as minor as low brake fluid level (yes even brake fluid level), to complete engine swaps. They are also after the tires that do not properly fit the rims crowd (you know who you are). He said that 90+ % of vehicles at car shows and car meets have emission viloations. Any vehicle past 1966 cannot have an engine swap without being BAR'd. That means if you have a 1969 Camaro With a 572 injected engine, then you can be cited. Back then cops just assumed that since these cars are classics and do not need to be smoged that they could not give them a citation. Well now they are getting more educated and informed so they can get anyone that is in violation. I was also told that these same officers would walk the car show or meet to spot possible offenders, then go to their check list or call one of their traffic officers to confirm if there is a violation. I also asked about Historical Vehicle plates... He said that is also what they are telling the cops to watch out for. You cannot have a different engine or transmission in your car if you have those plates...remember for it to be a historical vehicle, it has to be historically correct. He said for me to watch out when driving around in any modified car, there will be more and more check points for vehicle violations popping up...it's a great money maker for the city...a city of many modded cars and trucks. He told me that he gets so many violators from West Covina...young, old, male or female. He told me that West Covina has one of the most aggressive programs when it comes to modded vehicle. They have random checkpoints daily. They even have a exhaust sniffer! Court date is for this Tuesday...Hopefully I get a cool Judge and just pay a fine.
-Big Mike
Big Mike Muniz
73 TE27 w/monster port 12A roadrace car.
73 TE27 RHD LEVIN "L'L MANGO"
72 RHD late model Truneo
72 RHD rare early Trueno
82 Porsche 928 Boeing powered "Jet Car"
96 Twin Turbo alcohol Pro Street Impala SS

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby 86 Corolla » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:58 pm

^ Hey Big Mike, we all appreciate you sharing your ordeal with the community. After reading your updates, I was speechless of what the State and cities are doing and planning to do. I have heard about the exhaust sniffer check points throughout Socal. I've also often witnessed more than 3 times the San Gabriel PD were setting up a sniffer check point on San Gabriel Bl (between Longen and Mission Bl). So, everyone please avoid using that route when possible.

I hope things will work out for you with the judge....

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby SidekickChuck » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:53 pm

Good luck to you in court Tuesday. Keep us updated.
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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby HingaSPL » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:30 pm

And this is only in Cali? I knew it was bad, but damn, it's getting worse?! Looks like when I visit my son in San Diego, I will just rent a car
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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby SNOOZ » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:27 am

if you have out of state plates they cant do anything. but it does suck for the rest of us. hopefully there is a way around all of this stuff , besides having a stock car that does less damage to the environment than a hybrid...

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby idreamofdrifting » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:34 am

Wow, what a pain in the a$$ indeed! Here's to you getting a cool Judge!
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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby Deuce Cam » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:13 am

Casing car shows for violators.... what a reasonable use of resources. There's your tax dollars at work folks.

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby Big Mike Socal Muniz » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:59 am

Okay, went to the court house yesterday for my citation. Even though I got there at a decent time of 7:05AM (court opens the doors at 8AM), the line of people waiting to get in wrapped around the building already! While in line I overheard this guy (who was talking really loud) talking to another guy in line about his car getting towed because the cop said his tires where a hazard since the tires are too small for the wheels. I asked him where he got the ticket? He said he was in Glendale, but an LAPD officer pulled him over for it. The other guy he was talking to was there because he came down from San Francisco 3 months ago to check out the scene at Cars and Coffee in Irvine…When he left, he got pulled over by Irvine PD. Jan (I think that was the guy’s name) was driving a Datsun 510 with an SR20 engine in it… He was cited for loud exhaust and modified emissions. He said that it was bullshit since his car is really quiet (turbocharged)… When he went back to San Fran, he tried to have the case transferred there, but as he finds out you can no longer transfer courts (but somehow he got moved to LA court???)… So he had the court due date extended twice, until he was able to show up yesterday. So we were finally in the court house building. Got in the wrong line once I was inside (window 1-10), so after I realized that I was in the wrong line, I switched over to the other side (left side when you walk in the building) to windows 11-20… So they called for the next person in line (after a 45 min wait in line), I walked up the window and they look up my citation. I was then asked if I had my State Referee certification with me. I told him that it failed and that I had a hard time looking for working emission equipment to put back on the car since the car is reaching 40 years old (did not mention it had a motor swap 12A in it) . He then told me that I would have to go in front of the Judge…. So while in the court room, the bailiff called a guy that had a 1969 Camaro to go up next…He was there for modified exhaust and modified emissions… The judge asked him for the State Ref certification paper, He said he did not call or go since his car does not need it and that his car was smog exempt! The judge said “Oh really? Who told you that” The guy responded…”My Dad”. The judge said “ well so that you know and you can also tell your Dad, That even though your car does not have to be smog checked every 2 years, it still has to have the emission equipment for that vehicle, in that vehicle, plus…it also has to have the correct engine in it” , So the guy responded… “I bought this car this way” The Judge: “Then you inherited the problem and you would have to fix it”, The guy response: “I would just have to sell it then, Would that get me out of the ticket?”, Judge says “no… That citation is yours, no matter what you do with the car until it is corrected”… ***side note: I did look it up to see if that was correct. I guess the court system got wise. Before when someone got a ticket, they just “sell” the car to a friend…clear the ticket, then the friend sell it back… I guess you can no longer do that.. click link and scroll down to where it states “Sale of vehicle”: http://www.saccourt.ca.gov/traffic/how- ... ction.aspx ***.
Okay back in court. Next up a guy with an 1972 Datsun 240Z (original engine, stock exhaust, after market muffler, and Weber DCOE side drafts *I talked to the guy in the parking structure after court that’s why I knew his set up* He explained to the Judge that he had already fixed the exhaust and is now quiet…The Judge asked “so why did it not pass the State Referee inspection? He responded by saying that the state ref would not check the exhaust since the emission violation was still not fixed, he further explained that the emission violation was for having a non-stock carburetors and mission PCV valve (PCV was there but since there was no factory airbox, the hose to the valve was not directed for the engine to ingest any kind of blow-by… So the judge said” Install the original parts and get it certified, and why do you say your car passed the exhaust citation?…The guy said: “ He has searched high and low for a good set of stock working carburetors for this car, so He had to resort to the use of the aftermarket carb…he also said that since the state ref could not test his exhaust for dB compliance, he went ahead and took it to a shop and had it checked (while he was waving a piece of paper from the shop). The Judge said: “ if there is no fixing this car then you would need to take it off registration and just register it for off road use…or I can have you come back in 2 months…that way you will have the time to correct both violations, The exhaust noise limit test also has to be certified by the State Referee only. The guy agreed to the judges terms and will come back later. Then it was my turn. I told the judge exactly what I told the window clerk earlier, and I added that when I got pulled over by LAPD, that day…I was leaving a car show and was just driving my car to my trailer that was parked 2 blocks down since there was limited space to load the car at the actual event (made it up on the fly) … The Judge Said: It does not matter, If the car was driven on a public road, then it has to abide by the rules of the vehcle code, So the judge said, get the car fixed, schedule another inspection with a state Referee, get certified and come back on 11/4/2013… Damn I’m screwed!

***sorry for the drawn out post…I just wanted everyone to know that I was not the only one that got screwed!
Big Mike Muniz
73 TE27 w/monster port 12A roadrace car.
73 TE27 RHD LEVIN "L'L MANGO"
72 RHD late model Truneo
72 RHD rare early Trueno
82 Porsche 928 Boeing powered "Jet Car"
96 Twin Turbo alcohol Pro Street Impala SS

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby mikeyee » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:09 pm

fffffffuuuuuuuuuuu.

have you considered looking into registering the car with family/friend out of state and forgetting all of this CA emissions BS?

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby ZTS » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:16 pm

Big Mike,

That sucks man. Sorry about what you had to go through. :(

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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby Big Mike Socal Muniz » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:48 pm

Okay, this is when real friends show their colors (in a good way)... A friend of mine in Mexico found out about my ordeal. He has a bone stock complete 1973 Corolla S5 in his backyard that he was saving to fix up when he had some extra time (and money). The car runs, no leaks, and just needs a tune-up. He offered me the use of any part of his car to swap into my TE27....then get it refereed...certified...and then swap everything back to his car again. :x This will take some time to do. I would have to take his front sub-frame (motor mounting points on mine have been shaved off for the rotary), the engine, transmission, drives shaft, transmission cross member, all fuel lines (pressure, return, tank purge lines), fuel tank (mine no longer has the purge valve), all emission related items (thank God his car is a USDM model) , and the entire exhaust system. Then after its all certified, do the reverse :evil: ... I told the state ref that has been helping me out about what I plan to do, and he said...To be careful If I do that and decide to put everything back on the car and I get caught again and cited for the exact citation It just had....My car is toast! Well at least now there is some hope....Thank you for all that have supported me through this ordeal.
Big Mike Muniz
73 TE27 w/monster port 12A roadrace car.
73 TE27 RHD LEVIN "L'L MANGO"
72 RHD late model Truneo
72 RHD rare early Trueno
82 Porsche 928 Boeing powered "Jet Car"
96 Twin Turbo alcohol Pro Street Impala SS

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VitriumGTS
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Re: got a ticket leaving Nisie showoff...

Postby VitriumGTS » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:22 pm

What does SEMA backed lawyers have to say about these things?
Shakotan, Oni-kyan & Hippari a-go-go baby!

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