Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

mr2mk1hero
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Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby mr2mk1hero » Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:53 am

Hi,

So I finally put together my engine after a long rebuild and tried to start her, but there is no spark. Car is Mr2 mk1.
Engine is cranking. Rotor is spinning, but there no spark.
ECU is alive, I shorted T and e and all I get is one flash and then pause, and then one flash. Nothing more.
Tried a new battery. Still no spark.
I have grounds in the correct spots as per BGB. Only thing I'm not sure is this thing Image,which I connected right where the fuel lines are bolted down, on the water outlet of the head. But these things aren't ground anyways, right? They just hold the harness in place? I have two left over which I didn't put anywhere.
I have grounds on thermostat housing, on the batter stand, on the T-vis, on the fuel filler neck bolts, on head on engine lift bolt (galvanized, is that a problem?), and on that spot right above the fuel filler neck.
The parts where the grounds are have been painted, but I sanded the ground spots to make sure. Could this be it?

Before I knew there was no spark I shorted Fp and B to check if the fuel pump works and to get fuel into engine via cold start injector. Fuel pumo works fine. This worked for me last time when the engine would not start. I then tried cranking and there was an extremely loud bang and fire from the exhaust. I tried again. Another huge bang. I realized this was because I flooded the engine with fuel and there was no spark. Could this have damaged the engine?

I checked TPS with multimeter before rebuild, was fine. Didn't touch it since.
I don't thing I have vacuum leaks. I replaced every single hose and connected everything as per BGB.
I connected a timing light to the #1 spark just to make sure, and of course there was no flash.

Please help me, what should I troubleshoot next?
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby jondee86 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:46 am

Underneath the wiring harness to the injectors you should find one of these brass ring
connectors with 3 or 4 brown wires attached. These are the ECU ground wires and they
get bolted down to the top of the inlet manifold.

Image

Image

They are underneath the wiring loom and frequently get missed when putting an engine
back into a car. May not be your problem, but worth checking. Exhaust doen't go bang
without a spark happening :) The cold start injector does not have anything to do with
the ECU, so you can get fuel into the engine without the main injectors firing. The cold
start injector can supply enough fuel on its own to start the engine, but it will die as soon
as you let go of the key if the main injectors are not squirting.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby ToeKnee805 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:10 am

Is there spark going into the dizzy form the coil?

Remove the lead wire and arc it with a screwdriver, if you have spark there but not at the rotor check your distributor connections or distributor assembly.

If you got no spark GOING to the dizzy, check your coil ground, and your coil connections, or maybe even the coil itself.

Loud bang in the exhaust has nothing to do with flooding. That means that your timing was WAY off and it caused a backfire. Which mean that your ignition worked at some point.
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby mr2mk1hero » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:38 am

Thanks a lot for your responses guys. I actually managed to fire it up. Timing was way off you are right.
Dizzy was off by 2 teeth.

I shorted t1 and e and adjusted with timing light while engine was warm. I am at 10 btdc now with the terminals shorted. But car still runs really weird.

Below 2k rpm power is attrocious. I have to rev the car quite a bit to get it moving.
Between 2k and 4.5k power is kinda better, but still terrible. Car hesitates, judders, very hard to get it going uphill.
Above 4.5k rpm car is perfect. Its ridiculous. Power comes in at the very second I hit 4.5k and just keeps going like crazy from there.

I set cam timing with a piston stop, degree wheel, dial gauge, etc. and was really careful checked it like a dozen times to make sure. So I am willing to bet I didn't mess that up. But nothing is impossible.
TPS was working ok before engine rebuild so I didn't touch it, but I will double check it asap.
I checked for vacuum leaks and I am almost certain there aren't any.

I also get 11 flashes with t and e1 shorted. That's tps and aircon right? I dont have aircon...

Any clues? Thanks a lot in advance!
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby ToeKnee805 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:27 am

11 flashes is normal operation.

Seeing as how you only have power at 4500 im willing to bet you either deleted TVIS or your TVIS is stuck open. Check your vacuums going to the dashpot and vacuum tank. If anything, all my cars run weird at 10btdc i have to advance them more. Try going to 15 or even 17.
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby Alex170984 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:32 am

By the way, the battery stand isn't the best place for the earth.

There is a big bolt on the gearbox you can remove and put the earth onto. Much better connection.

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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby mr2mk1hero » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:03 am

Thanks for the reponses.

I did not delete t-vis and even if it was deleted I don't think it would influence performance this dramatically. Car is still running rich, noticeable fuel smell, and its slow to rev. Going uphill is only possible in first gear.

I realized a problem with the TPS, the throttle stop screw and the lever were not touching each other. There was a gap there. So I adjusted the throttle stop screw and I got a correct reading between top pin and third one down, I got 0.5 K ohms exactly. Confirmed with analog and another digital multimeter. I was sure this was going to improve things, but it improved nothing. Car is still running rich, noticeable fuel smell, and its slow to rev.
I also tried unplugging the cold start injector to check if its maybe stuck. Nothing happened. Car was warm and ran the same with cold start injector connected or disconnected. So that's not stuck.

Short after my coolant start bubbling and boiling over. Temp gauge sitting nicely in the middle but coolant is coming out the overflow tank. I tried adding through the filler neck but it spits it back up. I realized when I was bleeding the coolant I didn't turn the heating to max. This means I have air in the cooling system right? But that could not have caused poor performance below 4.5k rpm?

I am getting frustrated, I have no idea what's wrong with it now. Cam timing is right, ignition timing is right, t-vis stuck open would not make the car this slow and lame, tps does nothing. I have most likely effed up some stupid vacuum connection or something.

The tank is half full of old petrol, about a year and half old. I added 5 liters of 98 octane. I'm sure its far from ideal, but it does not explain why it ran great above 4.500 rpm.

What's also confusing me is that below the t-vis I don't have this Image


Mine looks almost identical, but there's no electrical connection / this black drum thing at the end, just another vacuum outlet at the end.
Once I connected all the vacuum hoses this one was left over. The only other vacuum port left over was one on the t-vis, you know the one that has three vacuum ports, one goes to the pressure regulator on the rail, one is capped off, and one was open in my case. So I connected it to this thing vsv thing under the t-vis. In the middle of the vacuum line there is a tiny piece of plastic that lets air go in one way but not the other. I tried turning it both ways today, and it doesnt change anything, except that the fuel smell becomes even more noticeable.

I also screwed in the wax pellet valve, could this be causing that issue. What I mean to say is that I did this: Image


It was on top of the thread before. My wax pellet port was plugged up with silicone before, so after reading a thread on the mr2 board forum I screwed it in like this to try and rectify the issue. Maybe I should plug up the wax pellet hole again and see if it helps?

I know this is all long and boring but I really need help and clues now. I can't really take it to a mechanic because no one will want to play detective and will just say I messed something up and its impossible to discover now.
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby jondee86 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:36 pm

Multiple choice questions here :lol: You can't troubleshoot if you just change
things at random and hope for the best. You need to start setting things back
to factory and eliminate as many potential causes as possible.

TVIS Operation
The black canister under the intake is a vacuum reservoir. It holds enough vacuum
to to keep the TVIS plates closed for starting. The solenoid valev (that you don't
have) is controlled by the ECU to vent vacuum when the engine rpm is above 4200
and the TVIS plates are required to be open.

If you don't have the reservoir and the solenoid you have two choices. Hook the
actuator to a vacuum source and have the TVIS plates closed full time around town
and only open at full throttle. Or leave the vacuum disconnected and have the
plates open all the time for sluggish low rpm performance.

Theromostatic Idle-Up Valve
The wax pellet valve is not user adjustable and is not supposed to be open at the
end It is factory adjusted and sealed to prevent fiddling. The job of the valve is
to let extra air into the engine when cold and cause a high idle that tapers down
as the engine warms up. Since your valve is probably munted, I'd suggest taking
it off and making a flat blanking plate out of 1/8" thick aluminum to block off the
idle-up system completely. That way you will have to use the throttle for a few
minutes after cold starts to keep the engine from stalling, and put up with an idle
speed that increases as the engine warms up. You can set a compromise idle speed
by adjusting the air bypass screw down the tube on the side of the throttlebody.

Water Temperature Sensor for the ECU
The ECU takes a reference from the engine water temp sensor (EWT) and provides
a rich mixture to help with starting and running a cold engine. Check that yours is
connected and sending the correct signal tothe ECU.

Fuel Pressure Regulator
The FPR is vacuum compensated by the hose that connects to the side of the inlet
manifold. If the hose is missing or split, the FPR will read atmospheric pressure
and signal the ECU to supply a rich mixture. Makes idling a bitch, but engine will
work fine at full throttle.

Ignition Timing
If the ignition timing is retarded, the engine will be sluggish. Standard timing is
around 15-17 degrees before top dead center at idle... diagnostic plug NOT shorted.

Make sure all these things are either working correctly, or know for sure that they
are not, before changing anything else.

Cheers... jondee86
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persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby mr2mk1hero » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:27 pm

jondee86 wrote:Multiple choice questions here :lol: You can't troubleshoot if you just change
things at random and hope for the best. You need to start setting things back
to factory and eliminate as many potential causes as possible.

TVIS Operation
The black canister under the intake is a vacuum reservoir. It holds enough vacuum
to to keep the TVIS plates closed for starting. The solenoid valev (that you don't
have) is controlled by the ECU to vent vacuum when the engine rpm is above 4200
and the TVIS plates are required to be open.

If you don't have the reservoir and the solenoid you have two choices. Hook the
actuator to a vacuum source and have the TVIS plates closed full time around town
and only open at full throttle. Or leave the vacuum disconnected and have the
plates open all the time for sluggish low rpm performance.

Theromostatic Idle-Up Valve
The wax pellet valve is not user adjustable and is not supposed to be open at the
end It is factory adjusted and sealed to prevent fiddling. The job of the valve is
to let extra air into the engine when cold and cause a high idle that tapers down
as the engine warms up. Since your valve is probably munted, I'd suggest taking
it off and making a flat blanking plate out of 1/8" thick aluminum to block off the
idle-up system completely. That way you will have to use the throttle for a few
minutes after cold starts to keep the engine from stalling, and put up with an idle
speed that increases as the engine warms up. You can set a compromise idle speed
by adjusting the air bypass screw down the tube on the side of the throttlebody.

Water Temperature Sensor for the ECU
The ECU takes a reference from the engine water temp sensor (EWT) and provides
a rich mixture to help with starting and running a cold engine. Check that yours is
connected and sending the correct signal tothe ECU.

Fuel Pressure Regulator
The FPR is vacuum compensated by the hose that connects to the side of the inlet
manifold. If the hose is missing or split, the FPR will read atmospheric pressure
and signal the ECU to supply a rich mixture. Makes idling a bitch, but engine will
work fine at full throttle.

Ignition Timing
If the ignition timing is retarded, the engine will be sluggish. Standard timing is
around 15-17 degrees before top dead center at idle... diagnostic plug NOT shorted.

Make sure all these things are either working correctly, or know for sure that they
are not, before changing anything else.

Cheers... jondee86


Thanks for the detailed reply I really appreciate it.

T-VIS: I do have the T-vis vsv. What I dont have is the black breather filter on it. What I did wrong is that I connected the vsv port that should have the black breather filter to the gas filter no1 (the thing with three vacuum ports) that's on the side of the t-vis. Could this cause poor performance?

Thermostatic idle up valve: Mine was blocked off before with silicone. I unblocked it and screwed it down after reading a thread where doing so resolved the problem for good. It obviously resolved nothing in my case. I will most likely block that bugger tomorrow and see what happens. That is one stupid piece of technology for sure.

Water temp sensor: I cheked today that it works right for sure. What did also discover is that I need to bleed my coolant again. Could air in the coolant cause pathetic performance?

Old petrol in car: 1.5 year old petrol is in the car? Could it be the cause?

My FPR is connected properly to the t-vis via the gas filter on t-vis. You know the thing with three vacuum ports, two of which are capped off. So I assume that's ok.

Ignition and cam timing are definitely correct. Triple checked it. I can eliminate that.

Next is coolant bleeding, another tps check, proper connection of t-vis vsv and test plug of idle-up wax pellet garbage so I can eliminate those things. I hope there will be some improvement.
Thanks again for the feedback and help. No giving up now.
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby jondee86 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:30 pm

I once wrote a story about the TVIS VSV. You can read it here...
viewtopic.php?t=14755&start=450#p108416
Take the vacuum hose off the place where the filter would normally be, and
see what happens. It can't make it any worse :)

Cap any open ends on that 3-prong vacuum fitting on the intake manifold.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby ToeKnee805 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:19 am

i still say tvis, especially if you dont have the electrical connector that closes the tvis. TVIS is only meant to open at 4200, which is right about when your power comes on. AKA youre choking your engine with excessive air before 4200. I forsee more than one problem here as your car runs rich as well. Start with fixing and routing your tvis correctly.
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby jondee86 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:06 am

Oh yeah... and if you are running an AFM (black box with a flap inside on the end
of the intake ducting and after the air filter), it might have been fcuked with. Some
people open that thing up and mess with the clockspring inside to let the flap open
wider and trick the ECU into delivering more fuel. If the lid has been prised open
and then sealed up with silicone, most likely it will need re-setting or swapping for
a non-molested AFM.

The important thing with the TPS is to make sure that the Idle (IDL) switch changes
state just before the throttle arm hits the throttle stop. There is a procedure involving
feeler gauges and a multimeter that you need to do thru to get it set right. When it
is set wrong, you can get an ugly unstable idle.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby totta crolla » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:51 am

To quote:
"I also get 11 flashes with t and e1 shorted"

Code 11 applies when the throttle is pressed and should show normal operation when the throttle is released.
Unless you have already sorted this the ecu is not going into idle mode and the rest of the TPS values may be wrong.
A quick and dirty way to adjust the TPS to get idle mode is to run the engine at idle and then turn the TPS gently until the revs drop. Check for normal operation code afterwards.
Have you checked the cam timing ?

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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby Alex170984 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:18 am

Check the actual connector itself that goes into the TPS plug.

I had all sorts of issues that I thought were TPS related, I checked all the readings and all were in tolerance. The plug didn't click in properly and that was the cause of the problems. I suffered for 3 months with the car cutting out when the engine was hot because of that.

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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby mr2mk1hero » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:37 am

Hey guys, thanks for all the responses!

I solved the 11 flashes thing. My throttle stop screw and lever where not touching. 11 flashes is gone now. I re-tested the tps with a multimeter, all were withing tolerance. But car still ran like crap.
Coolant was bubbling and overboiling, temp gauge showing normal temperature. I bled the coolant.

Jondee86 thank you so much for the t-vis vsv link and how it works. I realized I had an improper connection to my t-vis vsv, t-vis was most likely open, or stuck half-way open. I connected it properly now.

I didn't manage to try the car after coolant bleeding and proper t-vis vsv connection. Batterry died, I left the marker lights on and went home. Idiot.
Battery is charging and I will give it a try today. I will also plug up the wax pellet port. Iscv. I am sure that is not working right.
Alex, you also might be right. There might be a poor connection on the tps, not a bad idea, will try that as well.

Cam and ignition timing is spot on. I triple checked that. I also looked at the crank pulley with a timing light and played with the throttle a bit. Here's a how it behaves:
I just blip the throttle. Timing retards for like half a second or less and comes back to normal.
I give it a bit of throttle and hold it. Timing retards for half a second or less and then advances and stays advanced as long as I hold the throttle.
Is this how it should be behaving?
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby jondee86 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:55 pm

That is normal timing light behavior. The ignition retards momentarily to prevent
pinking (pinging) when you snap the thottle open, then advances as the revs go up.

Now that you have fixed a few things, road test the car and describe exactly what
problems remain to be sorted.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby mr2mk1hero » Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:44 am

Ok guys, the saga continues! Progress has been made.

The lack of power has been resolved. Car now pulls below 4500 rpm as well as above that mark. It was indeed the t-vis vsv and t-vis was probably stuck open.

I also plugged up the wax pellet port with tightly pressed in tissue paper just to test it. Unscrewed the idle adjustment screw on the TB a fair bit. Bled the coolant.
Car idled rock solid at 1.500 rpm and drove fine. Coolant level was moved a bit but it didn't bubble or come out of the expansion tank.

I left the car overnight came today to start it. Coolant level dropped a bit below the full mark, I didn't refill after bleeding and test drive. Tried to start the car, cars starts and dies immediately. I unscrew the idle adjustment screw some more. Car has developed a bouncing idle overnight somehow. It idlles like 1000-1300, 1000-1300, 1000-1300. It does this in a very rhythmic fashion. Up down up down up down when I am stading still... I am honestly confused now. Air got into the coolant somehow overnight?

I have also drained the first oil after the rebuild. Drove like 3 or so miles with it, but did idle with it a fair amount while I was setting up everything and testing. Oil was a solid gray color. I expected that because of the assembly lube. But it was also very thin, almost like water. I put it 15w40, because it was the only true mineral oil I could find. There was a noticeable amount tiny of metal shavings on the magnet of the oil pan bolt. Nothing big but visible to the naked eye. I am worried. Is oil this thin and visible metal shavings normal and expected after a full rebuild and first oil change??
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby Alex170984 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:16 am

Buy another throttle body off of a working engine if you can.

I had this issue and could not resolve it and it turned out to be the AAV on the Throttle Body.

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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby s24a » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:47 am

mr2mk1hero wrote:I have also drained the first oil after the rebuild. Drove like 3 or so miles with it, but did idle with it a fair amount while I was setting up everything and testing. Oil was a solid gray color. I expected that because of the assembly lube. But it was also very thin, almost like water. I put it 15w40, because it was the only true mineral oil I could find. There was a noticeable amount tiny of metal shavings on the magnet of the oil pan bolt. Nothing big but visible to the naked eye. I am worried. Is oil this thin and visible metal shavings normal and expected after a full rebuild and first oil change??


What was the original fill oil spec from your rebuild?
Also, in your rebuild did you have block work done (eg: boring the cylinders or deburring the block or both)?

If you had block work done and the block was not recleaned in a high pressure wash and then before assembly you did not clean all passages with gun brushes, you can get small metal particles that have remained on the block walls and passages.

A thin oil to start with when mixed with assembly lube will still be a thin oil. Typically break-in oil is a thicker oil also used during assembly to coat and remain on the wearing surfaces. Like a 20W-50 oil or better.
After the initial break-in you can then go to a thinner running oil. That depends mainly on your ring choice and what the manufacturer of the rings recommends.

As for small metal particles on the magnet, its doing its job. Cut open the oil filter and see what you find there.
If that also only has a small amount of small particles on the pleats, then you should be OK.

Hank
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby jondee86 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:08 pm

Information on the AAV here (FAQ strikes again)...
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12013#p79892
You need to adjust the air screw to drop the idle speed. Most likely your AAV
is borked... that will be why someone had been inside. Replace or delete.

Coolant expands as the engine warms up, and some gets pushed out into the
overflow (expansion) tank. If the tank is filled to the correct level, when the
engine cools down and the coolant contracts, it will suck coolant back into the
radiator from the expansion tank. The rad is always full when you take off
the cap.

Read all about it here (FAQ for the win)...
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12283#p81695
If the expansion tank is empty or missing, after you top up the radiator and
run the engine until warm, some coolant gets pushed out, but none gets
sucked back when the engine cools down. Level in the rad drops and stays
there... no need to add coolant so long as the top of the core is still covered
by coolant. That's how it worked on your garndpa's car :)

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby mr2mk1hero » Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:50 pm

Thanks for the responses guys once again!

Jondee86 your links are all awesome.
What's the easiest reliable way to delete the AAV? Sealant in the the hole that's right in front of the throttle plate?

Regarding the oil:
I put in 15w40 mineral oil from Eneos. Supposedly a reputable Japanese brand. Hard to find decent oil here in eastern Europe. That's the only fully mineral oil I could find.
Here's what was done to the engine.
New cams, new shims, head decked a bit, head ported midly,block decked a bit, block bored 0.5mm.
Crank polished a bit and balanced. New cast pistons balanced. New rings. Conrods balanced.
New main bearings, new conrod bearings, new thrust washer. All OEM (excecept pistons and rings). Everything sized per BGB. Ring end gap was only 0.03-0.05mm tighter than BGB recommends.
Head was washed by machine shop. Block was washed by me. Unfortunately. Used a pressure washer and cold water. Blew everything out with compressed air. Sprayed quite a bit of wd-40 in there. Was afraid it would rust as I had to leave the block for 3 weeks.
Put a lot of assembly lube on all bearings and cams. I expected oil to be gray. I expected a tiny bit of metal shavings. But what really weirded me out is how thinned out was the oil when it came out. Felt like someone dilluted it with water, or petrol.. Could I have coolant getting into it? There is zero white smoke from exhaust...
Unfortunately I threw the oil filter away. I hate myself for it now.
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby jondee86 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:07 pm

mr2mk1hero wrote:What's the easiest reliable way to delete the AAV? Sealant in the the hole
that's right in front of the throttle plate?

Yes, that's the easiest way. Block it up with JB Weld or epoxy if you want a permanent
job, or silicone if you think you might be able to get hold of a working AAV some time.
Just make sure you got the right hole before using JB Weld :)

Cheers... jondee86
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persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:52 pm

mr2mk1hero wrote:What's the easiest reliable way to delete the AAV? Sealant in the the hole that's right in front of the throttle plate?


http://www.ksdengineering.com/KSDEngine ... _p_19.html
'88 Corolla All-Trac

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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby mr2mk1hero » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:27 am

So, here's a short little video of her running and revving a bit. Exhaust is obnoxiously loud as you can see. Will replace soon.
https://youtu.be/3ya20WJd-LY

What puzzles me is the valve shim clatter sound.....sounds like a diesel. I put new catcams in, contacted catcams to make 100% sure what clearance needs to be on intake and exhaust. Gave that clearance to machine shop and they made that clearance happen. Why the heck does this clatter like this? It clattered the exhact same way before the rebuild.... Maybe its not shims? something else?

How does the engine sound to you guys?

So far she has done 45 miles or so. Right now the third batch of oil is inside the engine. Second came a bit cleaner than first, but still some assembly lube in it and tiny metal shavings on the magnet of the oil pan bolt. She seems to pull decently, haven't really floored it all the way to 7600 rpm yet....waiting to do at least a 1000km.

If there are metal shavings on the oil pan bolt on the third oil change, I should be worried right?

I sealed up the wax-pellet hole, but engine still sounds like it wants to die if I turn the idle adjustment screw all the way down...
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby Alex170984 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:23 am

You're exhaust sounds like it's blowing badly mate.

I've got cat cams and I shimmed it myself. My shims are not set to all 0.20 as the card specifies. They are still as per standard tolerance. Mine also sounds like yours when it's cold.

I'm sure I've read or heard somewhere that the injectors can make a clicking sound.

What cat cams are you running? I've got the 8.5/9.0 lift ones.

Did you have the cat cams in it before when you said it still made the same noise or were the cams standard and it clattered? Tells me it's not valve or shim related.

What sort of metal shavings? It is slightly concerning...before it gets too bad, perhaps you should pull the sump and have a look inside.

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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby Alex170984 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:26 am

Further more to your lack of power issue on threads above - the TVIS being stuck open is a good thing.

I've deleted my TVIS as it gives me more torque at the bottom end. Mine really does pull strongly in the higher rev range, even more than it did with the TVIS operating as normal.

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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby mr2mk1hero » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:29 am

Thanks for your response,

I have the mildest possible cat cams setup, 2x 8.0mm lift cams. Mine sounds the same....cold or warm.
I just watched an old video before the engine rebuild, absolutely the same damn sound.... This really might be the injectors. I was given some good advice to listen to it with a stetoscope. Will give it a try.

Its not really metal shavings, its more like tiny tiny metal particles. Probably from the new cams? I don't know. Never rebuilt an engine before. They worry me.

Sorry, but T-VIS stuck open can't be good. If it was good, then the bigport would not have any t-vis in the first place. There is no way you, me or hardly anyone on these forums is smarter than a team of Toyota engineers...if if they were from the 80s.

Exhaust is probably leaking. All gaskets are new OEM and everything is new past the manifold....its just stupidly loud and the horrible sound quality of my video doesn't help. I'll make a better one over the weekend.
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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby Alex170984 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:22 am

The TVIS is there for the standard camshafts. Putting in higher lift and longer duration camshafts is a known issue for the TVIS. Various people on here have discussed it but not too many have actually removed it.

Read here. Look at the 150-160hp info http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm

I rebuilt my engine twice. The second time due to the cambelt snapping due to an error on my part and it also destroyed my cylinder head. I only changed my oil once after about 100 miles and had no issues. Having metal particles since a rebuild is not good and I really doubt it would be the camshafts. You can take the rocker covers off and inspect the cams to see if they are damaged but I doubt it. Considering I have the camshafts that are deemed too higher lift for the standard valve train to deal with, you will have no issues with yours at all. I've had no issues with shims being flicked out so it's a load of rubbish about that.

Did you measure the crankshaft and bearings properly when you rebuilt the engine or did you just install new bearings? Or did you actually replace the bearings?

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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby jondee86 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:25 pm

There are a number of things that can result in "ticking" or a small "tapping"
noise coming from an engine. And it can be difficult to figure out where they
are coming from without a stethoscope. But you can get a good idea by grabbing
a piece of garden hose about three foot long. Put one end to your ear and use
the other end to probe around the engine.

I just fired up a fully rebuilt engine with factory cams. All the shim clearances
were within factory specs, yet I still have one that I can hear ticking. Every
16V 4AGE seems to have at least one that ticks :)

A very small leak in your exhaust manifold gasket can make a ticking noise that
sounds just like a noisy tappet. That one has fooled a lot of people !!

Did you remember to lock up the cam belt tensioner after you put the belt on
the engine ? Although there is a spring on the tensioner, it is only there to set
the initial tension, After that it has to be locked by tightening the bolt.

A bad tensioner bearing can also make a noise that sounds exactly like a bad
engine bearing. That one fooled me and an experienced mechanic for a while :oops:

The oil filter should be collecting any particles circulating with the oil. If you
had an engine failure (bearings, rings etc) before the rebuild, then it is likely
that there were metal particles inside the oil passages. Some of these may be
getting flushed out. If the engine was bored or honed, then break-in will generate
a small amount of very fine particles as the rings bed in to the cylinders. New
cams should not be shedding any metal. And new bearings will only shed metal
if the journals are rough (crank not polished) until the crank beds in.

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: Rebuilt 4age bigport no spark

Postby mr2mk1hero » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:59 am

Here's a little sound recording I made.

This is with a lapel mic to eliminate the sound of the exhaust.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j8jdFY ... e=youtu.be

How does it sound to you?

I went at it with a stetoscope too, and my inexperienced ears tell me that its not the shims. When I put a stetoscpe to the valve covers the sound that I heard through the stetoscope was a different click that what was audible without the stetosope. But when I put it onto the injector connectors and wires it was that single clear tick that I could hear on the outside as well. The sound from the valve covers is like more clicks that are harder to tell apart than that of the injectors. Honestly this is almost completely impossible to explain with words. How does it sound to you guys?

After seating the rings I haven't really floored the car nor trashed it. I shift at 3-4k rpms. I went as high as 6 during this video. The car feels like its pulling but not as much as I expected. The subjective instrument of by butt feels that the power curve is maybe a bit weird, like its pulling harder at 4-5k than at 6k. But maybe its just me fooling myself and pulling the foot back at higher rpms due to fear of damaging something.
How long should I wait before using the full rpm range? 500 miles? Or is it fine to start flooring it already?
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