Restoring AE86 w/ 4AGE 16v + HKS ITB + Haltech E6X

[jondee86]

The Corbeau and the Recaro's are chalk and cheese !!! One is a fixed back
bucket designed for maximum hold and safety with a proper harness. The
other is an adjustable for comfort OEM seat designed for use with a standard
safety belt. One is a serious motorsport tool and the other is for a DD that
might see a bit of autocross action now and then.

If you intend to get into some sideways action with your car further down the
line, then you will appreciate the extra holding power of the Corbeau seat. And
if you install a full harness for the extra protection it will give in the event that
you stop suddenly against something solid, the seat has openings for the belts.

My plans are for a more relaxed style of driving, so the Recaro's are better
suited to my needs... horses for courses as the saying goes

Cheers... jondee86

[YoShImUrA]

I wouldn't recommend bucket seats and harness unless you fit those with a rollcage.

It's not like you have much time to react, but in case of a roll-over, the stock seatbelt and seat allow you to duck slightly and maybe prevent your head from being crushed by the roof.

[Deuce Cam]

I like a solid bucket if the car's not a daily. Confidence in turns is greatly improved - as long as the seat fits tight - because one no longer has to brace by holding tight onto the steering wheel. Recaro Profi SPG is my favorite for fit, mounting, and style (flat top which suits older cars like ours). You don't want a harness without a cage - bad idea for safety reasons like yoshi said. For best stock belt performance/safety unbolt the belt assembly at the base of the b pillar, pass it through the base belt hole on the left side of the seat, and bolt it back up to the b pillar. pass the buckle through the base belt hole on the right side (it might be easier to remove plastic sheath for this) - it's how oem's do the belt on cars equipped with fixed back seats that have high side bolsters at the base.

The main problem with aftermarket seats, especially bottom mount and/or reclining, is you almost always end up sitting higher than the oem seat. Does the seat only have bottom mounts, or are there also side mounts? Side mounts can offer a lower mounting position if a low position base rail/mount is used like nagisa, memory fab, bride fg. Part of the problem with side mounts is you generally need a fairly narrow seat for everything to fit good. I had a Recaro Pole Position (17" wide at bottom) and got it to fit with the nagisa low rail, but the mounting was all under tension since they're not made to be used with seat that wide. I got everything to bolt up, but after a while I discovered that it peeled the rear right mounting hole/nut on the chassis like opening a tin can due to the tension

PS jondee86 I always liked the recaro ls style seats. Perfect look for an ae86. I want to try a set, but I'm worried I'll end up sitting higher than stock. Perhaps that can be avoided with a diy approach using the stock base?

[aceforever]

Thanks for the tips guys. I like how you guys keep me in check.

I actually already have some OEM seat belts and buckle and was going to install them for the ease of getting strapped in. The previous owner rigged up a 4 point harness with the OEM seats to work like a 3 point. I didn't like it so I actually installed it improperly with the seat belt going straight down, it could work if I strap the top two belts to the rear seat belt holes. But now the OEM seat belt/buckle is here I'll be working on fitting that on the car after I get a good adapter.

@Deuce Cam: I've felt side mount bolts on the left and right side. Four cap screws total. Seems like Corbeau doesn't cut the holes into the fabric for side mount screws to show unless necessary when people order with bottom mount. Also that's too bad about the your rail experience. I wonder

[aceforever]

Finally heard back from vendor on Amazon about my Seibon hood not fitting, they said they contacted Seibon and Seibon is asking for more pictures. So I sent them some pictures. It's funny since Seibon hasn't gotten back to me directly. Perhaps they put vendors on higher priority.

Remember my wonderful cracked velocity stack? Apparently it's actually necessary for RHD cars. I didn't think of it before, but the RHD brake booster is totally in the way. The previous previous owner must have cracked it on purpose when fitting them on.

Here's someone else's picture sent to me from a friend.


Anyways I decided to try to fix it before ordering a T3/SQeng replacement that I would probably have to modify. I did a lot of thinking before deciding on this. Found a welder downtown that will fix it. Let's hope everything goes well!

Before shots:

[aceforever]

Having a rough time with vender on Amazon and Seibon. Seibon is doubting that the hinge latch is a stock thing and didn't understand so I drew a picture. They asked for a picture of the entire car to confirm that I had an AE86.



This is stock piece right? I've seen it on multiple cars on the internet. Are there cases where this isn't there?

[aceforever]

The main problem with aftermarket seats, especially bottom mount and/or reclining, is you almost always end up sitting higher than the oem seat. Does the seat only have bottom mounts, or are there also side mounts? Side mounts can offer a lower mounting position if a low position base rail/mount is used like nagisa, memory fab, bride fg. Part of the problem with side mounts is you generally need a fairly narrow seat for everything to fit good. I had a Recaro Pole Position (17" wide at bottom) and got it to fit with the nagisa low rail, but the mounting was all under tension since they're not made to be used with seat that wide. I got everything to bolt up, but after a while I discovered that it peeled the rear right mounting hole/nut on the chassis like opening a tin can due to the tension

I heard good things about bride rails. I've done some research on the Bride rails. They seem to have a rail/bracket combo system. Places are listing the "RO" type for the ae86 instead.


RO:
Width: 405mm


FG:
Width: 395mm


Perhaps an RO + one of these?

[jondee86]

I've got some...



IIRC the hooked pins are there to (hopefully) stop the hood
coming back thru the windscreen in the event of an accident.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

I've got some...
IIRC the hooked pins are there to (hopefully) stop the hood
coming back thru the windscreen in the event of an accident.

Thanks for the confirmation. Seems like a stock thing on all AE86's. And I was guessing it was some safety mechanism, thanks for confirming that as well.

[Deuce Cam]

If the seat is 16.5" wide at the base you're better off with a bottom mount. 395 mm equates to 15.55". The main benefit of the 2 piece rails - like bride fg - is the seat can be lowered below the rails since the seat fits in between them - the hitch is the seat base needs to be no more than 15.5" wide.

Again, I got my 17" wide pole position to bolt up with a rail like that, but it forced and everything was under a lot of tension, to the point where I couldn't slide the seat forward/backward unless I loosened all the seat mount and side rail bolts. With a correct size 15.5" seat the cross section would look like this: I=I, but my 17" seat was like this: \=/. The tension over time made a floor mount give way... My solution was to cut the floor mounts off, trim them for extra clearance, and weld the rails back on further apart. (They were used Nagisa low rails (just like the bride fg) that I got for cheap.) Probably not worth doing all that to new rails.

Something like that RO alone might be your best bet. If you attached those side rails to the RO the seat position would be crazy high. There's also a company called wedge engineering that makes mounts/rails: http://wedgebrackets.com/toyota-corolla ... ckets.html . I bought from them once to mount an evo 8 recaro seat in an impreza. They asked the distance between the mounting points on the bottom of seat and made it accordingly. If you decide to go that route just make sure to tell them to make the base/rails to go as low as possible.

Regarding the seibon hood. The peg that sticks up on the chassis is normal as jondee86 mentioned. If you have a dremel it would probably be pretty easy to cut the holes out yourself.

[aceforever]

If the seat is 16.5" wide at the base you're better off with a bottom mount. 395 mm equates to 15.55". The main benefit of the 2 piece rails - like bride fg - is the seat can be lowered below the rails since the seat fits in between them - the hitch is the seat base needs to be no more than 15.5" wide.

Again, I got my 17" wide pole position to bolt up with a rail like that, but it forced and everything was under a lot of tension, to the point where I couldn't slide the seat forward/backward unless I loosened all the seat mount and side rail bolts. With a correct size 15.5" seat the cross section would look like this: I=I, but my 17" seat was like this: \=/. The tension over time made a floor mount give way... My solution was to cut the floor mounts off, trim them for extra clearance, and weld the rails back on further apart. (They were used Nagisa low rails (just like the bride fg) that I got for cheap.) Probably not worth doing all that to new rails.

Something like that RO alone might be your best bet. If you attached those side rails to the RO the seat position would be crazy high. There's also a company called wedge engineering that makes mounts/rails: http://wedgebrackets.com/toyota-corolla ... ckets.html . I bought from them once to mount an evo 8 recaro seat in an impreza. They asked the distance between the mounting points on the bottom of seat and made it accordingly. If you decide to go that route just make sure to tell them to make the base/rails to go as low as possible.

If I had recline-able seats I would be on board with something like RO alone. In fact, the seat came with a slider and I would only need brackets to fit an AE86 to get it installed. However given that I like a bit of recline on my seats, side mounted would allow for more adjustability. Those wedge bracket+slider combo seems neat. Any word on how much wiggle there is when the seat is locked? The only reason why I'm leaning towards the bride rails is because of good reviews on the slider mechanism.

Regarding the seibon hood. The peg that sticks up on the chassis is normal as jondee86 mentioned. If you have a dremel it would probably be pretty easy to cut the holes out yourself.

Thanks for the input! I was thinking the exact same thing. However I'm just making sure I'm not making alterations to the hood that void any warranty I might have with Seibon.

[Deuce Cam]

The wedge is probably the same style as the bride RO now (no tilt adjustment on the base). I forgot about that and it's a good point.

IIRC the wedge used to have some adjustment for tilt. There were 2 rails that bolted to the bottom of the seat, and a frame that bolted to the floor. In between was an adapter that bolted to each rail (and the base) that had 3 height settings, like this:





The adjustment tabs had to be cut shorter to use the lower settings. You'll definitely want to contact them to see if this is still available if you're interested. I have a hunch it might not.

This type of setup, or even just the RO, will likely sit higher than stock, but don't quote me on that. The stock seat generally rides lower than aftermarket because the base cushion is very thin, and also how the base/rail is set up.

OTOH, for reference, if you got a recaro spg/bride zeta 3/sparco prodrive/etc., and bride fg/nagisa low mount rail... they can go 1-2" lower than stock.

[aceforever]

Ah, very interesting solution to the tilting. I think there's a flaw with this method though, as you slide more forward, or back, your height changes. This still seems about the same height as if I went with the side mount plates on top of the slider. I'm leaning towards a Slider+Bracket combo and a side mount plate still.

[Deuce Cam]

That's somewhat true. But if you used the RO/side mount at the lowest front/back position it would be the same as just the RO alone, only higher. The lowest position on the side rails could be up to an 1" higher than just using the RO. To get any tilt the front would have to be raised further. You could run into knee steering wheel clearance issues. I've been there. It's a gamble for sure.

I'm guessing with wedge anyway. They might not do the adapter things anymore. The RO along would probably be the lowest option, but you run the risk of not liking the tilt angle.

How tall are you?

[aceforever]

Yeah I agree it's going to be a gamble with RO+sidemount. Thanks for bouncing ideas with me. I'd like to avoid buying unnecessary parts.

What did you think of the rails on Nagisa or Wedge? Did they lock firmly in place?

With the Bride FG, it looks like the seat rail isn't centered. Do you remember if yours was centered? Do you still have pictures of your FG setup? I'm thinking I could make FG work with wider seats if I can fabricate or find my own side mount plates even if the width of them is smaller.

I'm a bit short haha. 5'5"-5'6"

[Deuce Cam]

It might be less of an issue do to your height, hard to say. I'm 6'3" with average length legs/torso for my height.

My nagisa setup was an older version which had difference side mounts than they sell now. They actually look more like the memory fab style iirc (probably made in the same place). Ride height in the lowest position was close to the same with both rails/bases. The fg had more tilt in the lowest position - so it was a higher on the front of the seat - which I personally didn't prefer. It meant less clearance between knees and steering wheel. Since I'm tall I prefer as low as possible. (And both setups were low. Noticeably harder to see out of the car.) For reference, I don't have knee/steering wheel clearance issue with the stock seat even though it sits over 1" higher - all about the tile angle.

The nagisa memory fab rails only have a locking slider on one of the rails, like oem... Not ideal and less safe imo. The bride was super legit with locking sliders on both rails.

I don't have pics of either unfortunately. I should mention that my height references on the bucket seats with low rails are minus the but cushion on the seat. Removing it on the recaro seats gets one a tad lower. Plus it allowed my larger frame to fit the contour of the seat better.

[aceforever]

Ah, okay good thing to note about the size differences.

Here's what I could find about the Nagisa AE86 rails:


Weird, I can't find any place selling memory fab seat mounts.

I did find someone with Bride FG:

The FG seems pretty good actually. If only I could find the right model of FG for the ae86.

EDIT2: Nevermind, FG is actually dual slide locking:

[Deuce Cam]

This is what they looked like (pics are memory fab):




I don't remember the part number for the bride fg. I got mine from http://www.rhdjapan.com. I just asked for a LEFT side fg rail for ae86, and they came through with the quickness (and good price) like always.

[aceforever]

I think the FG rail wouldn't work well for my seat because I need to bolt the seat in with the side mounts like this: └ ┘ and the unlocking mechanism will be behind the side mount

And the memory fab is only one side locking. Ugh, back to square one.

[shagymc]

This thread progresses so fast and I check it every few days... The seat rail convo is interesting. I'm an OEM feel type guy like Jondee too. I have a set of Euro R Accord seats on custom rails and it they still sit pretty high. It's actually pretty annoying because I like to be a lot lower and you can't really tell by the picture but my head is maybe a couple inches from the ceiling. I know having the sunroof doesn't help either.


It's also worth mentioning too that T3 has seat rails as well but they are only for side mount seats. I don't know anyone that has used them but they look to be top notch stuff as usual. I'm very interested in the route you're going to take though! Keep us up to speed!

[aceforever]

Hood fitment

Just got word from Seibon today about the missing holes on the hood for the hooked pins. They told me to use a stepped drill bit to make two circles and a dremel to connect the two circles. I measured out the holes and they are ~18mm wide, that's ~.70inch, so the closest drill bit size would be 11/16". Man I absolutely hate the US tool sizes sometimes.

Anyways, I cheaped out on the bits because cheap ones will probably do the job just fine in this case. Bought the following from from Harbor Freight:

• "Dremel"-like accessory pack with tons of bits
• Shallow stepped drill that went up to 11/16 without going too deep
• Lightsaber (more on this later)

Hood protection

I'm also looking at various heat shielding materials for the underside of the CF hood as I heard you could "cook" the CF from below because of radiant heat from your exhaust header/manifold. I still want to make some metal heat shield for the header and/or re-ceramic coat them but that can wait.

For rock chip prevention, I'm looking at various types of films and looking at places that would install them. I heard really good things about Xpel ULTIMATE and its "self-healing" properties, so I'm leaning towards that.

Seat mount

Thanks for the input shagymc! I'm curious about your custom mount. Is it a two piece bracket (like FG / T3) or a one piece like Bride RO-type? Does it have sliders?
And thanks for mentioning the T3 rails. I've also looked into T3's side mount bracket system previously. I like the bracket piece. The side mounts they provide wouldn't work that well when you add sliding rails in between because the width of the side mounts is tied to the width of the slider. If T3's side mounts provided side to side adjustment like planted side mounts, that would be most ideal.

But that does give me an idea:

Option A
T3 2 piece bracket
Some two piece slider(bride? or perhaps I can repurpose the Corbeau by chopping the unlock mechanism handle to widen the tracks) on top of the bracket
T3 side mounts on top of the sliders

Alternatively I can try the following:

Option B
T3 2 piece bracket
Some slider wide enough that we can adjust the side mount width to work.
Planted or similar wide base side mount

Option C
Bride RO bracket/slider combo
Planted or similar wide base side mount

A and B would probably be the most low solution
B will be most expensive, C next, and A being least expensive.

[jondee86]

Talking about seats... I spent the afternoon figuring out what it would
take to get the Recaro's into my car. Turns out the spare set of rails I had
from previous seats were no help. The previous owner had drilled and tapped
the base of some Jamex seats to make them fit onto cut down Toyota rails.
Not something I would want to do with the Recaro's, and only one rail was
locking anyway.

Looking at the OEM rail setup, it is locking both sides and has a bunch of
attachments for holding the seat. Plus the rail spacing is different front to
back, so there is no legit way to use them with the Recaro's. It looks as if
I will be shopping for some Bride RO rails that will cost more than the seats

But the good news is that I had the seats mocked up in the car so I could
check the fit, and I think they will work. Seating position looks to be about
the same as OEM, but the Recaro's have a lot more lateral support. Playing
with the adjusters, I noticed that the tilt adjustment for the seat back also
changes the angle of the seat base. Could be some potential there for gaining
a few millimeters of headroom when wearing a helmet ?

Oh, and the seats are identical left and right, so I can put the sunburned
sides to the middle of the car for a better look

Cheers... jondee86

[Deuce Cam]

^Good to know that the oem bracket is dual locking. I thought it was just one side. With your seats I'm curious to hear how the height ends up compared to stock since I've always liked that style Recaro. Please keep us posted.

My thoughts on the T3 setup... I've never tried it or seen in person, but the seat mounting points (slots) on the side mounts look really high. It might not be bad when used with their brackets since they're low profile with no slider. (The sliders are probably around 1" in height.)

[aceforever]

Thanks for the update jondee86! I also didn't know the stock seats were dual locking as well. That's good to know. I'm curious how your setup will turn out

Has anyone made their own custom mounts? Seems like one could make one if they have the right tools and materials.

[aceforever]

Found an interesting read by carbd7age:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1236

[jondee86]

Found an interesting read by carbd7age:

Might have to look into something like that. I have the sliders that
came with the Recaro seats... they have lugs either end to make them
fit some kind of car. And I also have a set of otherwise useless AE86
sliders that have the factory lugs attached. I see that someone cut the
AE86 lugs off and welded them to universal sliders, so perhaps that
could work for me ? Not a lot material to work with on the Recaro sliders,
but worth a look.

Incidentally, what I said above about the rail centers being different front
to back is wrong. What I meant is that the bolts that hold the sliders to
the floor are at different centers. One of the lugs is offset to compensate
for the difference.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

My thoughts on the T3 setup... I've never tried it or seen in person, but the seat mounting points (slots) on the side mounts look really high. It might not be bad when used with their brackets since they're low profile with no slider. (The sliders are probably around 1" in height.)

Yeah I totally agree. It might not be low enough for seats with low bolt points.

Taking another look at Bride seat mounts:



Looks like for our AE86, Bride only has the following:




Not happy with any of them. I'd like XL width, but no middle support bars, with the side mounts.

Their low-max seats recommend LF which they DO NOT support for the AE86, so you'd have to make your own bracket


EDIT: Interestingly enough, I just noticed only their FX fixed seat mount is FIA Approved.

[aceforever]

Might have to look into something like that.... Not a lot material to work with on the Recaro sliders,
but worth a look.

I had you in mind when I posted that Good luck!

[Deuce Cam]

If I do it again I'll probably try the fx (had my eyes on those for a minute), even though they don't have sliders which isn't a big deal for me. I'm a little surprised they're FIA approved without cross bars. Maybe the cnc side brackets have something to do with it, but it might be the lack of sliders. Another thing to consider is maybe they didn't submit any of the other models for fia approval/testing. I imagine the testing process isn't cheap, among other factors like liability, etc.

On another note, I don't see why the cross brackets on the xl couldn't be cut out. Although I admit it would be a shame to modify new brackets in such a way.

[jondee86]

I had you in mind when I posted that Good luck!

Nice thought But I did a bit of research in the local Regulations that apply to
vehicle modifications, and find that any welding to seat rails has to undergo a
"Certification" process to prove that the welding meets approved standards.

From previous experience this is not path I would like to go down !! So I think
that the Bride rails (that do not require certification) will be the safer option.

Cheers... jondee86