Restoring AE86 w/ 4AGE 16v + HKS ITB + Haltech E6X

[aceforever]

Question: Is there any place that sell radiator bushings? I can't find them anywhere.

Also we noticed that going from neutral to 5th causes a lot of noise, however going from 4th to 5th does not. Could it be the syncro on one of those gears is off? Or perhaps this is normal?

[YoShImUrA]

Yup. Those are defo not stock t50 ratios. Nice!! I want to do the same to my car and fit a cusco type C gearset with an Mfactory 5th


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[jondee86]

Question: Is there any place that sell radiator bushings? I can't find them anywhere.

Toyota part# 90480-31009 and most likely discontinued. But try your local
Toyota dealer and you might get lucky

Also we noticed that going from neutral to 5th causes a lot of noise, however
going from 4th to 5th does not. Could it be the syncro on one of those gears
is off? Or perhaps this is normal?

I'm not sure why you would be going from neutral to 5th But if you can
change from 4th to 5th without any bother, the synchros must be OK.

There is a weird thing that happens when you mess up a shift and then have
a second shot at it without going into another gear first i.e. just shove that
sucker in there !!! The synchros seem to get cross threaded or something,
and you hear some pretty good noise as the gears mesh without any help from
the synchros.

There is probably a technical term for it... I call it graunching the gears

Cheers... jondee86

[YoShImUrA]

Couldn't that be the clutch bearing asking for a replacement? If standing still with the engine on, is there a different sound if you press and de-press the clutch pedal?


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[aceforever]

I'm not sure exactly what happened but we were testing near redline engine AFRs and he was shifting to neutral for a moment and then I hear this loud sound when he tried to shift into 5th. Sounded pretty bad. Didn't happen later on though when he shifted from 4th to 5th normally.

It kind of sounds like if you had the car in neutral and then clutched in and shifted into reverse right away. I heard the reverse on the T50 is not synchromeshed? I have to wait for maybe 5 seconds after pressing the clutch before smoothly shifting into reverse.

YoShImUrA, could you expand on the clutch bearing thing?

[jondee86]

It kind of sounds like if you had the car in neutral and then clutched in and s
hifted into reverse right away.

That's what I was referring to above... it is the noise that you get when you
manage to defeat the synchros and the gears mesh without being synchronized.
I hear it every now and then The trick is to stop trying to engage the
gear the instant you hear gears graunching, go back to neutral, let the clutch
out then clutch in and engage the gear correctly. Means you probably lost the
race with the guy in the next lane, but better than wrecking your gears.

Correct... no synchromesh on reverse.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

That makes sense. I guess somehow my friend managed to beat the synchromesh lol.

I've ordered a FGH garden hose to 5/8 inch adapter and 20ft of 5/8 clear hose in preparation of flushing the heater core. The heater core valve is seized entirely and I have a spare to replace it with. I'm pretty excited to do this and get the coolant in the radiator cleared out.

I also want to see how horrible the coolant is right now haha.

[YoShImUrA]

Well clutch bearing wouldn't make the crunching noise. Did you get to change the gearbox oil yet? If so, which one did you use? That also might help with a smooth shift. Personally I like how the Redline MT85 makes the box work more than any other (Motul included)


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[aceforever]

I got this: Red Line 57905 75W90 GL-5 Gear Oil - 1 Gallon
And replaced it a few weeks ago. Is it any good?
I noticed I couldn't fill the FSM amount as I suspect the transmission drain hole doesn't let all the fluids out.

Also good news! I went to another tire shop (Les Schwab). They managed to get the wheel lock off within 15 minutes.


It sounded like they hammered on a remover tool and impact gun'ed it to hell. The bite marks on it are a lot more aggressive than the ones I've been using.

Total cost: $10.96
Man, I should have done this sooner.

All of this is not without battles though as I'm still not very accustomed to driving a manual. I think I understand where the clutch catches now, however I tend to forget to give the engine a bit more gas when fighting an incline.

I took the longer, more residential roads going there, and then stalled a near a main road intersection right before the tire shop. Going back I got a little cocky and proceeded to take the main road back. It was only a mile and a half away, but it made me super nervous.

I notice a lot of rub on uneven grounds near my ally way. I think the previous owner set the ride height too low, or some suspension setting is off.

I proceeded to stalled out a couple times fighting the incline of the alley way going backwards. When you guys are reversing, do you ride the clutch/not letting the clutch fully engage when you want to move? I find the reverse ratio too fast.

[aceforever]

Here are some pictures of the bottom of the radiator:

Left:


Right:


Thanks Jondee86 for the part number, I think this place might have it in stock: http://www.villagetoyotaparts.com/products/GROMMET/3327407/9048031009.html
---

I also noticed that the conversion to JDM bumpers wasn't done right.

Front left: (front right is the same)


Closer:


Rear bumpers are also missing some bolts:

Looking into the hatch towards the rear of the car:


Left and Right:



I'm trying to find the right bolts for these. Seems like I need big washers as well?

[jondee86]

The bite marks on it are a lot more aggressive than the ones I've been using.

I suspect they used a tool like the last one you posted (too small). They are
all the rage on Ebay and at tool supply shops.

When you guys are reversing, do you ride the clutch/not letting the clutch
fully engage when you want to move? I find the reverse ratio too fast.

Exactly When manouvering in a tight place, just slip the clutch enough to move
the car... don't let it all the way out. Try and keep the revs low enough to stop
heating the clutch up too much, but high enough to prevent stalling. Takes a while
to get the hang of it, but you will

Cheers... jondee86

[jondee86]

Here are some pictures of the bottom of the radiator:

What I usually do when I want to flush the cooling system is get the car warmed up, heater tap full open, and park it in the yard with the engine running. Then I take the radiator cap off (carefully), get the garden hose ready and open the drain tap at the bottom of the radiator. Using the hose, I add water to the radiator so that I can still see the coolant circulating thru the radiator neck. You could probably do this with a couple of buckets as well.

Once the water coming out the drain tap is running clear, you can be sure you have flushed all the rusty coolant out. Close the tap and let the engine cool down to hand warm, then drain and refill with distilled water and corrosion inhibitor mixed as recommended on the container. Start and run the engine with the cap off until you see the coolant start to circulate, rev the engine gently a few times to push any air out, put the cap back on... job done

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

I suspect they used a tool like the last one you posted (too small). They are
all the rage on Ebay and at tool supply shops.

Sounds about right. It's good to know for the rest of the folks here if they're dealing with this issue.

Exactly When manouvering in a tight place, just slip the clutch enough to move
the car... don't let it all the way out. Try and keep the revs low enough to stop
heating the clutch up too much, but high enough to prevent stalling. Takes a while
to get the hang of it, but you will

Thanks for confirming my guess. It just seemed way too fast to let the clutch fully engage. Also, thanks for the encouragement! I'll practice more!

[aceforever]

What I usually do when I want to flush the cooling system is get the car warmed up, heater tap full open, and park it in the yard with the engine running. Then I take the radiator cap off (carefully), get the garden hose ready and open the drain tap at the bottom of the radiator. Using the hose, I add water to the radiator so that I can still see the coolant circulating thru the radiator neck. You could probably do this with a couple of buckets as well.

Once the water coming out the drain tap is running clear, you can be sure you have flushed all the rusty coolant out. Close the tap and let the engine cool down to hand warm, then drain and refill with distilled water and corrosion inhibitor mixed as recommended on the container. Start and run the engine with the cap off until you see the coolant start to circulate, rev the engine gently a few times to push any air out, put the cap back on... job done

Seems like a solid plan. I was previously planning to buy distilled water instead of hose water for the initial flush. I also didn't think about draining while filling with water until the water is clean. Thanks for the tip.

Do you think this is a good time to change out the thermostat as well?

[jondee86]

Do you think this is a good time to change out the thermostat as well?

If it is working OK, there is no need to change it. But it is not a big job so
long as the nuts holding the housing on have not seized up. You will need
a gasket as well as a new thermostat if you decide to change it out.

Depending on how good the tap water is at your location, you could do a
final flush with distilled water before filling it with coolant mix. Tap water
does not carry a lot of minerals here, but a jug of distilled water only costs
a few dollars, so I have started to use it recently instead of tap water.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Does anyone feel weird buying jugs and jugs of distilled water at a grocery store?



Because I do.

*rolls up to the checkout line with 5 jugs of distilled water and nothing else in the cart*
"Is that all sir?"
"Yes. I swear, it's not for me. It's for my car."
"Okay sir"

[aceforever]

I decided to take the speedo driven gear out to see if the new speedo gear is worn out and it seems like my suspicion was correct and it is just as worn out as the old one.

What do you think happened?

I did notice there's some slop in the casing, and the little tap that gets bolted in place to hold the "plate" 33485 in the picture below doesn't press the casing in as much as it should so that the casing is fastened tightly. I think this slop contributed in the plastic gear not seated properly and wearing out more than usual.



Do you guys have any other ideas before I buy the entire assembly (casing and gear and plate) all together) and replace them all.

[YoShImUrA]

Try asking for a used replacement on the wtb section or the Facebook groups. I'll be surprised of it's even available bnib.


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[aceforever]

According to this:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forum ... eedo-drive

19 tooth gear (SPEEDOMETER DRIVEN GEAR) is too small in diameter to properly mesh with the worm drive (TRANSMISSION GEAR). The 19 tooth gear should have the numbers 19 and 5 on it indicating that it matches with a N=5 worm gear which I presume has larger diameter than the "6" size. I have three gears, a 19 5, 20 6 and 22 6. I have two AE86s and the one that goes has the 20 6 speedo drive gear and as far as I can tell it has a 4.556:1 final drive which gives me 83 km/h by the GPS at 3000 RPM and the speedo reads close to 100 km/h. I tried the 19 5 gear in that transmission but that just shaved down some of the teeth on the new gear. My other 86 before it was written off would read way under actual speed - but that was before I had a GPS so I'm not sure the exact numbera; it was running a 3.909:1 S series diff and the 22 6 gear, so clearly that gear was wrong.

The worm gear that the speedometer driven gear meshes with can be different inside the T50 transmission. If it's a different number of teeth than what your driven gear is made for, it will chew off the nylon on the driven gear.

Since my transmission is a modified unit from Japan, I assume it might have a different worm gear? Like the N=6 mentioned in the quote above?

Anyone know more about this?

Thanks.

[YoShImUrA]

AFAIK, all 4AGEs in these cars all over the world came with a 4.3 ratio and the same T50 ratios. So it should have the same, I'd think. Maybe Jondee can confirm this.


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[aceforever]

The only thing I can think of is if they used a worm gear N=6 for some reason.

From this DIY rebuild post, the author took a picture of the worm gear: http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=9626


If you count the number of teeth between where the the worm gear teeth starts on the left and the teeth ends on the right, there are 5 teeth in that worm gear. And he seems to be using the 19 5 driven gear.

EDIT:
I have an idea, if I could drain the transmission oil enough so that I could take a peak at the worm gear to see how many teeth it actually has that would validate what I'm guessing.

The con with that idea is that I just put new transmission oil in and it was pretty expensive. Is it okay to reuse the transmission oil as long as I don't get dirt in it?

[jondee86]

Because... pics


http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=84654

AFAIK you have to dismantle the gearbox to change the drive gear on the
gearbox output shaft. There are some combinations that work, and some
that don't. I say find one that works even if the speedo reading is wrong,
and be happy with that

On my car the speedo reads almost 120kph at 100kph road speed. If I need
to be more accurate, I hook up the Apexi RSM and calibrate that to read the
correct road speed. But I know that if I take 20kph off the speedo reading
I will be under the 100kph speed limit... close enough.

BTW, it is the number of "starts" on the drive gear that set the teeth number.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Sounds like I'd need to jack up the rear of the car and try rotate the wheels to see how many starts there are on the drive gear?

Have you heard of SR5 drive gears wearing out GT-S driven gears?

I was also wondering what you thought about reusing the gear oil.

EDIT:
In japan, do they have the SR5? I remember seeing on Initial D they had a SOHC car called AE85, perhaps that's the same as the SR-5 here in the states?

The previous owner said the T50 came from japan, so perhaps they used the gearbox from a 4AC for the close ratio gearbox build?

[jondee86]

I was also wondering what you thought about reusing the gear oil.

Just drain it into a clean container, let it sit long enough to allow any heavy
debris to settle to the bottom, and decant carefully into a clean bottle for re-use.
You shouldn't have any debris, but I'm sure the box never drains fully, so there
could be something carried over from the last time you drained it.

Too much mix and match possible on gearboxes. AFAIK there were only two
versions of the gearbox itself (early and late) but there were several variations
of shifter housing and bell housing according to which vehicle and engine the
gearbox was iinstalled into. Maybe someone else can help on the speedo gear ?

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Thanks for the tip on the gear oil reuse.

--

If it is the drive gear/driven gear mismatch issue, wouldn't this happen with people performing SR-5 to GT-S conversions?

Specifically, using SR-5 transmission, GT-S rear-end and attempting to compensate for the new GT-S rear and using a 19 5 on the 6 tooth drive gear.

Have you heard of anyone having worn out speedo driven gears because of a conversion? Or do most people deal with the speedo inaccuracy and not bother with using a new driven gear?

[jondee86]

Some more information here...
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?cmd=print&id=40396
... and here...
T-50 Transmission Rebuild - DIY by assassin10000
... if you wade thru and take what you can

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

You can uses a GTS Driven gear on a SR5 Drive Gear but it will read 15 mph faster and may eat up the plastic Driven gear.

Seems like mismatched gears would cause this symptom. The author replaced his driven gear as well.

[jondee86]

With gears there is very little tolerance for mix and match. It's to do with
the Diametral Pitch... the two gears have to be a close match. With the
speedo drive gears it seems there is some ability to run a couple of different
plastic gears on the same steel gear, but if you try and mix stuff at random,
the chances are the plastic gear will get chewed up.

I think the above posts outline the permissible matches ?

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Just found another quote that sort of confirms my suspicion that there's a 6 toothed drive gear in the transmission:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forum ... diff-ratio

From my search into this issue I concluded that ADM AE86 with its 3.909 diff came with a "20 6" speedo drive gear and the standard JDM AE86 with its standard 4.3 diff came with a "22 6" drive gear. I may not be correct but it seems to make sense.

My wheels are 15" and I have 195/50R15's. This is bigger than the stock wheel/tires. With some calculation it seems like the best speedo driven gear is "22.9 6" if I have a JDM 6 tooth drive gear. I don't know if Toyota even makes those.

[jondee86]

My wheels are 15" and I have 195/50R15's.

I can't remember... did you check your diff ratio ? If the gearbox has been
changed to close ratio, it is common to change the diff to a lower ratio also.

And you would need to figure the diff ratio into your calcs

Cheers... jondee86