suspension questions

ginger86
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suspension questions

Postby ginger86 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:04 pm

Just got my first 86. Sr5 with a 20v silvertop. I just plan on having it as a sweet weekend car, no drift abuse but I want it to carve canyons also. And drift if need be. (Or when I'm in the mood for it :) )
So my question is what are the recommendations on my suspension set up? Any links can help. I've done some research but everyone mostly wants it as a drift car. That's not my intentions for this car. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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jondee86
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Re: suspension questions

Postby jondee86 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:23 am

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

ginger86
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Re: suspension questions

Postby ginger86 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:17 am

Ok so I read it. Let's say I want coilovers. Different heights for different purposes. By what I read, with their improvements, am I still able to perform how I want? If I must then I'll get springs and shocks. Drop it about 2-2.5 inches. I don't want to lose performance just for style. I'll do what I must to make it handle how I want. I want it to grip corners. I know it takes much more than suspension but I thought this would be a great start. Thanks for those links. Taught me a lot!

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jondee86
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Re: suspension questions

Postby jondee86 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:42 am

There are a lot of threads like this...
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15459

Often it comes down to what skillz you have for fabrication, and how much you want
to invest in your suspension. One coilover setup that seems to tick all the boxes is
made by Fortune Auto and you can read about it on the Battle Version website here...
http://shop.battlegarage-rs.com/products/fortune-auto-coilovers-500-series

The Fortune Auto promo stuff shows the various options available, and is here...
http://www.fortune-auto.com/apps/blog/show/42474295-new-application-toyota-ae86-in-several-configurations

The price varies depending on whether you want them complete with new spindles,
and if you want coilovers for the rear or separate springs and shocks as per OEM.
I'm not in the business of advising anyone on which setup will be best for them, but
if you are prepared to spend the coin and want something good, the Fortune Auto
setup seems to rate above most other setups in the same or similar price range.

If you are more into the DIY type (height adjustment changes spring pre-load), then
take a look at the T3 offerings here...
https://technotoytuning.com/toyota/ae86

Generally speaking, if you want to go down 2.0 - 2.5", as a minimum you should be
looking at cutting the struts 40mm and doing a coilover conversion as covered by the
DIY guide here... AE86 - Convert Front Struts to COILOVERS - TUTORIAL - by Club4AG

You can use the KYB AGX SW20/Camaro shock combo (I have it and while it is not
brilliant, they do an OK job for the money) and use spring rates around 5 front and
4kg/mm rear to start with. That will be sporty, but won't kill you on rough roads.

Lots of people on here have tried lots of different setups. Once you settle on which
way you want to go, post the combo you are thinking about, and get some input from
the guys who have actually driven the same setup.

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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smackdownz
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Re: suspension questions

Postby smackdownz » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:33 am

correctly setup coilovers and a good set of tires ;)

Deuce Cam
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Re: suspension questions

Postby Deuce Cam » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:53 pm

Anybody considering the fortune auto units should read this thread: http://hachiroku.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37514 . OP claims the chassis needs trimming (specifically the oem rear spring bump stop mounts) to fit the adjustable rear spring perches... :roll:

Off the shelf coilovers are the easy button. They offer the most flexibility for ride height adjustments while keeping shock travel and spring preload in check. I personally think they're way too stiff though, and I live in a dry desert climate with decent roads.

There's plenty of info out there regarding diy short stroke setups, and performance shock / drop spring setups you just have to search the forum, also check the old archive forums.club4ag.com

IMO a good place to start is the full prothane bushing kit. Probably the best bang for the buck mod. That alone will change the feel of the car in a good way. I've used all different types of bushings and imo they're the best compromise between performance and comfort without feeling too soft at the limit.

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jondee86
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Re: suspension questions

Postby jondee86 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:29 am

Interesting point about the "cups". I had seen that post but couldn't visualise
what the poster was talking about when he said he had a problem with the cups.
This pic shows what he is talking about...

Image

Here is a pic of a typical rear spring install. You can see the OEM bumpstop
is still in position inside the cup...

Image

So obviously someone at Fortune Auto took their eye off the ball with this one :roll:
The plate inside the cup is not required, and would make it impossible to install the
cup with the OEM bumpstop in place. If you put the cup on the axle then the plate
will rob you of 50mm of stroke and you will be bouncing on the bumpstops all day. So
the quick answer is cut the plate out. Shouldn't have to do that, and I would expect
Fortune Auto to replace those cups as part of their product backup policy.

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

Deuce Cam
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Re: suspension questions

Postby Deuce Cam » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:22 am

jondee86 wrote:Interesting point about the "cups". I had seen that post but couldn't visualise
what the poster was talking about when he said he had a problem with the cups.
This pic shows what he is talking about...
Image


Now that is very interesting. I hadn't actually seen a picture of it before.

It looks similar to the AJPS adjustable perch since it also has the flat plate with a hole in the middle. That feature allows the AJPS perch to bolt directly to the oem spring bump stop location like so:

Image

Fwiw I have no first hand experience with the AJPS units (although they look great!), but I have to assume when bolted up the other end of the perch is flush up against the body where the oem spring would seat, otherwise the weight of the car would be resting only on the spring bump stop mounts.

Back to the Fortune Auto review... it almost sounds like the spring perches were too short, unless it was installer error.

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jondee86
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Re: suspension questions

Postby jondee86 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:13 pm

Here is a BIG pic of the AJPS adjustable perches. It shows that they don't
have the base flange as seen on most other adjustable perches.
http://www.ajps.com.au/images/20131016_172102.jpg

So now that there is a small mystery to be solved, and as I have my car on jacks
to do an oil change, I'll take a look under the back :)

EDIT: Been a while since I was under there, and had forgotten how the rear
spring locates at the top. There is a metal cone under the bumpstop that
locates the ID of the spring, and aside from that, there is some sheetmetal
that sits real close to the OD of the spring.

Image

So if the ID of the perch is too small it will not clear the metal cone on the
inside of the spring, and if the OD is too big it will get caught up in the
sheetmetal around the outside of the spring. I assume that this was the
part that was cut away by the guy who made the post that you linked.

Image

Seems to me that the plate with the hole should allow the OEM bumpstop
to be bolted back on after the perch is installed. Maybe Fortune Auto can
provide some clarification ?

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

Deuce Cam
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Re: suspension questions

Postby Deuce Cam » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 am

Exactly. Great pics btw!

I also don't see why one couldn't still use the bump stops, albeit with 2/3 trimmed off so there was still some bump travel.

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BattleGarage_RS
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Re: suspension questions

Postby BattleGarage_RS » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:38 pm

Hey guys,

Just wanted to quickly address this since a customer tipped me off.

We have sold quite a few FA500 ae86 sets so far since this post in July and the feedback has been great. I'm not sure if this was an early unit or what, but I use these on my own daily driver/track car with a 7Kg/mm F and 5.1Kg/mm TRD rear spring setup. I did this because I didn't want to use the 6K FA springs, but this will be addressed soon.

I have forwarded this info on to FA and I will be testing a demo perch I got from FA to see if I can replicate the OP's issue.

Cheers guys,

Grant
The tuning spirit of the 90's is alive again!

AE86 parts 24/7 :arrow: http://shop.battlegarage-rs.com

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BattleGarage_RS
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Re: suspension questions

Postby BattleGarage_RS » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:39 pm

Jondee, I appreciate the vouch, it means a lot coming from you. :D
The tuning spirit of the 90's is alive again!

AE86 parts 24/7 :arrow: http://shop.battlegarage-rs.com

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BattleGarage_RS
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Re: suspension questions

Postby BattleGarage_RS » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:14 pm

So guys, this is why it's a win-win to support vendors that are also enthusiasts for the car you drive.

We contacted Fortune Auto about this issue and they are already working on a fix! A spacer will be machined up and sent out to any of our customers that purchased the kit with the OEM style perch. If we somehow missed you, please email us and we can make sure you get a spacer mailed out to you. This spacer will be included with any coils placed in the near future.

Long-term, they will be revising the perch design so the spacer won't be needed at all. There is no down side to using the spacer in the meantime.

Below is a drawing of the existing perch, they also sent a drawing with the fix built in but I will keep that info private for our/their customers =)

Image
The tuning spirit of the 90's is alive again!

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SgtRauksauff
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Re: suspension questions

Postby SgtRauksauff » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:48 pm

start with making sure all maintenance is up to date. bushings, end links, etc. Once you're there, start with good tires, and good brakes. Drive the car, take it to autoXes and track days, find its limits, and find if you will exceed them.

Once you find those limits, you can make an informed decision on what spring rate you want to go with. Once the spring rate is decided, you can then choose to either lower the car or not, and then decide what dampers to use. Lots of times coilovers are used, because race car. But nobody ever ends up getting their car corner-weighted, which is the only reason coilovers are actually needed. But, a side effect of coilovers is easy height adjustment, which is what most internet tuners use them for.

my car a few years ago:
Image

Get the spring rate you want, and then install the springs and dampers. If you decide to change the suspension geometry (lowering) then you will have to install other things to rectify that so your handling is "good" again (RCA's, 'traction brackets', adjustable panhard rods, camber plates, etc etc etc...

at the core of it all is the spring rate. Remember, anti-roll bars are nothing more than an artificial spring rate increase. They are there so people can have softly-sprung cars that are luxurious to drive and soft as a feather when riding over bumps, but yet still be able to corner without catching a bumper on the road and flipping over. If you pick the right spring rate, you do not need anti-roll bars at all. you could have just the right rate for DD-ing the car spiritedly, and great handling at autoX, but if you decided to go to a drift day, just connect the endlinks back up, and let your tail hang out.

Gripgoose808
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Re: suspension questions

Postby Gripgoose808 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:40 am

just out of curiosity has this issue been fixed with a new perch? or are they still selling it with a spacer? i am about to purchase a set and want to know thanks!

Gripgoose808
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Re: suspension questions

Postby Gripgoose808 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:19 pm

i had a question if anyone here in the past two years has any experience with the Powered by max coilovers?

i read their forums and many others as i could find with the pictures not being expired. are they dependable? is it safe to use even after welding up the rear top strut mount with that cup shaped item?

I am pretty new to the ae86 suspension combo as i am more accustomed to the Schassis suspensions.


Or am i better off just running a greddy type S setup? because it runs spring and shock separate? i see in this thread people saying Greddy has "missed the ball" but i haven't experienced enough to know what i should be looking for?

My 86 is going to be driven 50/50 for occasional street use and track use

thanks!


I saw a pic on the PBM site of the D2 coilovers that mount to the shock top and it blew right threw it, just want to make sure if its reinforced with that cup thing PBM supplies that it won't do that?

anyone with a few years of experience on these are welcome to chime in thanks!!!

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