Redroku's not so red AE86

[redroku87]

So, despite the name, my AE86 will not be red. It's going to be receiving the panda treatment. Just the clear the air about that. I have been an AE86 fan since I was 12 years old, which was *gasp* 14 years ago. It all started with a neighbor that owned one, rocking the side drafts. I bought my first AE86 when I was stationed at Ft. Hood- but thanks in large part to me being stupid and not knowing how to shop for old cars like this, and it being a piece of crap, it all fell by the way side.

But that was then.
Fast forward a couple of years, I saw the light.



The whole AE86 journey resumed when I was driving back from some God-forsaken-military-building-of-some-sort back to my barracks.
It hit me, while driving my 2011 Corolla, that I wanted to buy an AE86 and do it right. Which I did. Complete with 14x8 Celica Supras and some K-sport coilovers, but most importantly with a basically rust free very straight body. Thanks to Craig's List and another AE86 enthusiast living in the area as well, I was going to get what I wanted. Just one stipulation, it was an SR5. Not that I really care.



I was honestly torn between WRX blue, white, red, British racing green and the panda job. But eventually, I reached a decision. A panda my AE86 shall be.



It was actually this exact AE86 that made my decision a lot easier. I am keeping the USDM front end. Why you ask? I have this weird position on buying stuff like that...



I had every intention of getting started right away on it, until the Army and its infinite glory decided that I had to take a not so entertaining business trip. Since I get to have this kind of special Army fun involving months out in the middle of nowhere to do training, I had NO time to work on my car. When I wasn't training, I was sleeping/spending time with humans that mean more to me then a car/cleaning my crap for the next stupid exercise.




Because I figured this would be the last splurge I make in my life, I made the decision to have it professionally restored. Why? Because I can. Because even though I should do a lot of the work myself, I didn't have the time or patience or desire to screw up doing this completely myself.

[redroku87]

The next project I do I will most certainly make my penitence for not doing the AE86 myself. I know that it is only natural that I would want to DIY a resto/mod, and I do. I love working on things mechanical. Or electrical. Or ancient and electrical as shown be the picture of me running field phone wire. None the less though, I wanted my AE86 done well. Here's the progress as the professional hands of the shop doing the work for me here in El Paso make my AE86 become a reality.

[redroku87]

More to come as things come along. The paint, the engine, the interior, everything. It will look pretty damn good. I am sure of this, if you are from El Paso, SVS is absolutely the best when it comes to Toyotas.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Looks good so far.

[redroku87]

Looks good so far.

Thanks!
I think that I am going to raid your business when it comes time for my MR2 project I want to do.

[marley4us]

Looks sweet! what ya going to do to the motor?

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Awesome

[redroku87]

Looks sweet! what ya going to do to the motor?

Honestly, not much. When its all said and done this car isn't for drift, autocross or anything like that. It's a Sunday driver. Not because I am lame and don't enjoy driving something hard and daily, or competing in motor sport, rather because I will have put too much money into making this thing look basically new again.

Now the MR2 project, well... yeah that one is going to take the abuse.

As for the engine, it's getting a 20v. Which ever the shop finds first, I don't particularly care silvertop or black top.
The mods:
Technotoy Velocity stacks and filter.
Kelford Cams.
CP pistons.
Not sure about the rods.
Silk Road header, exhaust.
Retune, port and polish.

The pistons and rods will be a later on down the road sort of thing, if I even bother.
Just some extra pep in the step!

The future MR2 project will likely be a 7AGE, or a 4AGTE. 20v.

[John H.]

As for the engine, it's getting a 20v. Which ever the shop finds first, I don't particularly care silvertop or black top.
The mods:
Technotoy Velocity stacks and filter.
Kelford Cams.
CP pistons.
Not sure about the rods.
Silk Road header, exhaust.
Retune, port and polish.

[redroku87]

As for the engine, it's getting a 20v. Which ever the shop finds first, I don't particularly care silvertop or black top.
The mods:
Technotoy Velocity stacks and filter.
Kelford Cams.
CP pistons.
Not sure about the rods.
Silk Road header, exhaust.
Retune, port and polish.

Bad shock good shock?

[idreamofdrifting]

[John H.]

As for the engine, it's getting a 20v. Which ever the shop finds first, I don't particularly care silvertop or black top.
The mods:
Technotoy Velocity stacks and filter.
Kelford Cams.
CP pistons.
Not sure about the rods.
Silk Road header, exhaust.
Retune, port and polish.

Bad shock good shock?

GOOD SHOCK, that sounds awesome man! Keep us updated!

-John H.

[redroku87]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the positive input.

This is my dream car, so I kinda am pulling out a lot of the stops. Do I care if its 100% perfect absolutely immaculate? No. I really don't. There is a certain degree of imperfection I expect. It's a 28 year old car that isn't supported for crap, so what can I expect? I certainly am not going to stress chasing down a freaking AC knob that still has the decal on it. Doesn't mean s**t to me.

My odd stance on JDM stuff is kinda different to most people I am sure, it's just that I never really made that big of a deal over it (Honda people) and certainly not enough of a deal to spend 80 dollars on a piece of plastic that is on the Trueno and not the Corolla (JDM vs USDM) just because it makes me "legit". Sure I'll buy Japanese stuff, but it doesn't matter to me if its made in Portugal (the old country) and has a damn Galo de Barcelos stamped on it, if it works I'll use it.

I really HATE fads. I HATE HATE HATE HATE fads. I remember when chrome wheels that were too freaking big were in with body kits and vinyls. Then when the whole young/old driver stickers became popular. And the Altezza tail lights. The whole "murdered out" cars that completely miss the point that it's MATTE BLACK not FLAT BLACK, so I would see a new WRX looking like an AWD abortion. These days it's this whole stance thing. IDGAFF about being "flush" and having a good stance. As long as the wheels (hate the word rims) are fairly inline with the fender, and the ride is high enough that I scrape on a penny in the middle of the road, but not so much that I look like a donklette.

As far as the wheels are concerned, Apache IIs from Enkei. I am not about to spend 1400 dollars on some old Japanese wheels. Not unless they are the OLD school Advans. I might act stupid around those- especially with my Paypal account.
The Celica Supras are going to be cleaned up, and along the roads of life I might pick up the Fatlace Fzero1s. And some Diamond racing wheels. And the Enkei 92s.

My girlfriend has a shoe problem, I have a wheel problem.

[redroku87]

Bad shock good shock?

GOOD SHOCK, that sounds awesome man! Keep us updated!

-John H.

There are a couple of driveline issues.
Like it having an SR5 rear end. And drums in the back. And a T50

But that's why in the future it's getting a new tranny (torn between throwing in a W5* that wouldn't require cutting or getting a J160 somehow and the adapter) and a Celica Supra rear end.

[redroku87]

:::UPDATE 1:::

So... I went to the shop today to check on my car.

Here's what I found:


...and the painter under the hood.



The back of his coveralls reads: "Spray it don't say it" and judging by his other work I have seen- this guy means business.

There was a serious concern that I brought up to the sales guy/boss/guru of the shop: The transmission. We all know how wonderful of a transmission the T50 is, and how much it loves to break.
So he threw something out to me that is so radical I never considered it, didn't think it could be done following my rule that I have set for this car: No cutting, no hammering.

Well...
I stopped and realize something, the guru is right about this, its a more powerful engine, it's a bigger engine, it's still sexy and while it might cost me a little more cheese with him to get it under the hood I really don't care at this point.
And I would have a six speed.

I thought about it for exactly 30 seconds, squealed like a little girl, and it looks like my AE86 will be getting...

A BEAMS swap!*



*Which will receive ITBs
**I just have to hunt down this mysterious adapter to use 20V ITBs on it, ain't nobody got time to pay for aftermarket ITBs!

[yoshimitsuspeed]

What's the price tag going to be on the beams swap? Sounds like an expensive way to get to 200 CHP.


But hey if you want I can make you an adapter plate for the ITBs. I would just need a beams intake mani gasket to draw it up in CAD.

Another option for the A motors.
http://www.ogiptech.com/product.html

[redroku87]

There is a 10,000+ dollar budget on this thing.
Not counting the car.

Eh.
Screw it.


But yes, the adapter plate would be nice. Some ITBs too!

[Clouds]

There is a 10,000+ dollar budget on this thing.
Not counting the car.

Eh.
Screw it.


But yes, the adapter plate would be nice. Some ITBs too!

Baller

[yoshimitsuspeed]

I think I just have a prejudice against the beams because it's got this mythical awesomeness that makes too many grown men weak in the knees and a little wet. Never really understood how 200 HP could do that lol. On top of that performance parts are rare, some OEM parts can be hard to find since it's not USDM. Making more than stock power out of it will tend to be harder and more expensive than other options etc.

I bet for the same price as the swap you could do a 4AGTE mounted to a W58 that would spank a beams.
If I was going to ditch the 4A I would want to go big. Like Twin Turbo 1GR.
Of course I don't know a lot about the Beams in RWD form but from the little I have read it sounds like it takes some right work to get all the parts you need for the correct trans and all that. If you are having a shop do the work $10k can disappear before you know it.
I don't mean to be a downer or convince you not to do something you really want to but just raising some points that you may or may not have thought of.
Here is half your budget lol.
http://www.todaracingusa.com/catalog/pc ... tegory=176

There are a couple 20v ITBs on ebay that would ship from Malaysia
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-Toyota-levi ... 7b&vxp=mtr

Not sure where you would get a Beams intake gasket but if you can get me one I can design the adapter. You might try Lithia Toyota or Tor parts. Or another option would be once you got the beams to just send me the old gasket and preferably the intake manifold as well. From that I could design your adapter and also send the pattern into Cometic to get a new one cut.

[redroku87]

I think I just have a prejudice against the beams because it's got this mythical awesomeness that makes too many grown men weak in the knees and a little wet. Never really understood how 200 HP could do that lol. On top of that performance parts are rare, some OEM parts can be hard to find since it's not USDM. Making more than stock power out of it will tend to be harder and more expensive than other options etc.

I bet for the same price as the swap you could do a 4AGTE mounted to a W58 that would spank a beams.
If I was going to ditch the 4A I would want to go big. Like Twin Turbo 1GR.
Of course I don't know a lot about the Beams in RWD form but from the little I have read it sounds like it takes some right work to get all the parts you need for the correct trans and all that. If you are having a shop do the work $10k can disappear before you know it.
I don't mean to be a downer or convince you not to do something you really want to but just raising some points that you may or may not have thought of.
Here is half your budget lol.
http://www.todaracingusa.com/catalog/pc ... tegory=176

There are a couple 20v ITBs on ebay that would ship from Malaysia
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-Toyota-levi ... 7b&vxp=mtr

Not sure where you would get a Beams intake gasket but if you can get me one I can design the adapter. You might try Lithia Toyota or Tor parts. Or another option would be once you got the beams to just send me the old gasket and preferably the intake manifold as well. From that I could design your adapter and also send the pattern into Cometic to get a new one cut.

:::UPDATE 2:::



Basically that sums it all up.

Thanks Mishi.
I just found out that the BEAMS would take me over budget at about the exact same time you posted that.

So now as far as the engine goes the only answer I got is:

It will be a 4AGE.
Right but which one?
Yes.

I want a W58, let's see what I can crap. But there is still the issue of that POS SR5 rear end.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

What are your power goals?

Going of what you have said so far I would stick with the 16v.
I love the 20v but the extra work and cost to the gains you would get probably aren't worth it. Plus said you don't want to cut into the chassis and I think putting the Dizzy up front is pretty jankey. If you went aftermarket engine management with crank angle sensor that would fix that but there is still some added water plumbing issues and such.
IMO the biggest advantage with the 20v is the VVT but the 16v does well enough without it.
If you can find one for a decent price I would go with a smallport. If that proves too challenging or expensive then go with a largeport.
Of course if you are dead set on ITBs then you might as well go aftermarket engine management either way and the added money and work to put them on a 16v would be at least as much as going 20v.


Since I am a junky for high comp low boost this is what I would do.
16v or 20v depending on budget, availability, and your personal preference.
Forged pistons around 10:1
Cams in the range of 264. I would go either poncam or the kelford turbo cam.
Aftermarket engine management. The more I learn about the AEM EMS4 the more I think it sounds like a pretty bad ass bang for the buck.
http://matrixgarage.com/?q=store/ems-4
Other than that it would just be machine work and basic rebuild/refresh parts for the motor.
Turbo mani, turbo, Downpipe and exhaust and the required turbo plumbing.
I would run a small turbo good for about 250 WHP. This will give you lightning fast spool and a broad power band.
If you would be happy with the beams power then you will be stoked with this setup.

One option would be to address the drivetrain as needed. Not sure how you plan to drive it but for DD and occasionally playing around the stock trans and rear end could hold up at this power level for a while. If you plan on drag racing and drifting all the time probably not so much.

[redroku87]

:::UPDATE 3:::

The paint shop saga continues. What you cannot see from this picture is that literally everything has gotten painted that isn't the body panels or doors.
The jams, gas lid area, and inside the doors (the metal of the doors) (yes seriously) have all been painted.

I am eagerly awaiting to see this bad boy finished with paint!

[redroku87]

Yosh: I really don't care too much about power numbers with this thing. I want a perfect looking clean panda

[riddleyo]

First, thanks for the service.
Second, this car is destined for great things. I'm glad you are doing it right and look forward to seeing the progress. Good pics so far. If it is a DD and you don't care for power numbers, why don't you just go NA with intake, cams, exhaust, port work! No turbo means more longevity, more reliability, simpler to work on, better throttle response. Plus you get to hear and see your ITBs (if you go that route).. engine bay looks so clean. I love spool as much as the next guy, but you could use all that extra part cash and tuning cash for that shoe fetish of yours.. I mean wheel fetish. Throw down for suspension work and a nice set of star spec tires and have a freakin blast in your DD in the curvies. I've found handling to be more fun than power in a dd.

it's got this mythical awesomeness that makes too many grown men weak in the knees and a little wet. Never really understood how 200 HP could do that lol.

Hahahahahahahahha. That's great. But I'm pretty sure the original 115hp of the AE86 has made many a grown man weak in the knees and very wet.

[redroku87]

Thanks riddle.

No its not a DD.
This is basically a show car/sunday driver/Cameron Frye's dad's Ferrari status car.
Except not nearly as expensive.
Infact, thanks in large part to the military/connections I have/disposable income and the like, once this is done the next project is a new/better DD- probably a GS300 VIP.
Then the AW11.

There is a bit of temptation to buy a skyline.*
*read a lot

[yoshimitsuspeed]

No turbo means more longevity, more reliability

With a proper build this just isn't true.
There are plenty of OEM turbo cars that make it to 150k to 200k miles. The biggest thing is how you drive it.
If you built a 150 WHP NA 4A and a 150 WHP turbo 4A it's very likely the latter will last longer. The turbo allows the motor to make more power lower in the RPM. RPM has a lot to do with how long a motor will last.

In the same way, if you built a 250 HP turbo 4A and for the most part drove it nice it would likely last just as long as the 150 HP motor if you drove it nice.
If you stuck them in a top gear style shootout where the 150 HP NA had to drive as fast as it could as long as it could and the 250 HP turbo just had to keep up the turbo would last longer, get better gas mileage and be much less taxed.
So it's all pretty relative. The only issue with having 250 HP is it's hard to drive it the same as if you had 150 HP.

better throttle response

Throttle response will be the same There will be turbo lag but that's difference.
It's not a big deal but they are different.

[redroku87]

I don't care.

If speed was what worried me I would have bought....

...a Mark III supra and thrown a 2JZ in!

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Yosh: I really don't care too much about power numbers with this thing. I want a perfect looking clean panda

You could probably get 140 to 150 WHP with about $2k to $3 in performance parts plus the cost of rebuild parts, machine shop and the rebuild if you don't do it your self.

For another few grand in engine management, head work, and other parts you could probably get into the 160-170 WHP. At this point ITBs might start making some degree of sense from a performance perspective but still wouldn't make a big difference.

The cost of a turbo gets much harder to estimate a price on.
Do you pop open the motor? If so you might as well go with forged pistons.
Bigger cams? If you think you might want over 250 WHP you might as well get them to be prepared
At this point you already at about the same price as the 140 HP NA build. On the other hand once you throw the next $2k to $3k like you would to get to 160 NA WHP you have pretty much taken care of everything that holds the 4A back. Then you just choose if you want a nice responsive quick spooling turbo with better reliability and maybe 200-250 WHP? or do you want to slap on a 3076 and shoot for 400+ WHP?
It doesn't sound to me like that's you but the point is that with those mods the motor will be able to take it. Drive it nice most the time and maintain it with that 250 hp and it should last you a very long time.

These numbers are based more off someone who was doing most the work themselves so if you paid your shop to do a lot of it the price could go up.

[redroku87]

Thanks man, I'll keep that in mind.

[redroku87]

:::UPDATE 4:::

The female member of my life AKA the future Mrs. Redroku is allowing me to make a very ignorant purchase as soon as I get done with Panda.

Stay tuned, this will become a Skyline thread someday!
In like a year. Or two.