Oil everywhere

[toastypbj]

Hi guys,
New AE86 owner. Purchased a fairly clean Canadian GTS and registered it here in the States.
So here's the short version. Noticed a SMALL oil leak about 3 months ago, it was never more than a drop or 2 after it sat over night. Noticed it got progressively worse over the last few weeks. Finally had a chance to take it to my local mechanic. There's so much oil under the car he can't tell if it's something small that's being sprayed everywhere, or a few different oil leaks. There's a hole on the lower left side of the timing belt cover where something has corroded it. Also what appears to be a couple small coolant leaks.

A few symptoms I am noticing at the moment. At idle, the oil pressure needle hovers between normal and low. While driving and at any sustained RPM above 2g's or so, the needle sits at normal. While checking my oil level after letting it sit, it's consistently showing me roughly at full.

At this time I am curious what Club4ag thinks. I've attached his quote online. Should I move forward with repairs? Start looking for a swap? I'm nervous to put too much into a high mileage motor when I could spend some more cash on a potentially more reliable swap.

Pic of quote

[86_Chaser]

I would pull the cam gear cover off. Its like 4 bolts. If you see oil be hide the cam gear shield. There's a good chance your cam seals are bad, its common on a 4age. Only way to see if its leaking at the cam is to take off the cam gears and cam shield. I would start there. Take a pix and post it up. It might help.

[Jeonsah]

Check to see if the oil is coming from the front, side, or back of the engine. Same with the coolant. This will give you a general idea. If you have the mechanical ability and $100 to spend, you could just do a standard seal replacement.

Seals to replace:
1. Camshaft seals
2. Valve Cover
3. Valve cover Grommets
4. O-Ring on Distributor
5. O-Ring on Oil Cooler samwich plate thing(the thing the oil filter screws onto)
5. Front main oil pump seal
6. Rear main oil seal
7. Water pump/Water Neck gaskets


Good luck!

[Red]

If there's so much oil that he can't tell where it is coming from, the next step is NOT to fix anything.

The next step is to go to a car wash with a steam gun, and steam down the entire engine compartment and get it clean. There's nothing wrong with doing that every couple or five years, and as long as your engine is running well and you keep the spray to a minimum around wiring and the air intake, no problems. just run the engine for 1/2 hour afterwards to make sure everything is really bone dry before you shut it down.

With a clean engine it should be easy to spot leaks. You can add UV dye to the engine oil to make it easy to see oil leaks, using the same black light that is used for AC leaks. Same dye, same suppliers if your local shop doesn't have it.

You can also talc the entire (clean) engine compartment, and any leaks will eave tracks as they run through the talc dust, making them easy to spot. Talc, not cornstarch or other powders. Talc is also a lubricant and protectant for rubber parts, critters don't eat it, it doesn't toast or burn, so again there's no downside.

First, find out where the leaks are coming from.

THEN figure out what needs work. The timing belt is probably overdue and a damned inconvenience if it lets go while you are on the road, but the leaks? Who knows. Water pump. Crank seals. Oil cooler fittings. Lots of thing might need attention but why guess, when it is so easy to clean it up and then look for the actual problems?

[toastypbj]

Hey everyone, thanks for the great replies!

You all have helped out. I couldn't quite understand why he wanted to go ahead and start fixing anything before he actually knew where the leaks were coming from. Part of the quote was for a pressure wash of the engine bay though.

Red
With a hole in the lower cam cover, I wary to start spraying my engine clean. For a layman (me) is there much opportunity to ruin my engine while washing it?

Jeonsah
With the Haynes repair book, do you think replacing those seals are something a newbie could accomplish in a weekend?

86_Chaser
I think I'll have a chance to pull the cover off over the next couple of days. I'll post pics as soon as I do.

[Red]

toasty, I'm not sure which cover you mean but would suggest you just wipe it down and put a piece of metal tape or duct tape over it, then just don't hit the tape full force with the spray. If that's where the oil is coming out, that will also temporarily stop the mess. The metal tape (aluminum or stainless) is sold in hardware stores to repair leaking gutters and drain pipes, also in auto stores to patch rust holes temporarily.

[KonaTrueno723]

I just finished up a GTS earlier in the week that had the similar oil leak problems you have. Now I have an mr2 & it got towed into my shop yesterday. The same damn problems & maybe worser!

I'd move forward on the repairs to keep the car running for now. Maybe later down the road do a swap or rebuild when you've saved up.
Get this repaired soon..or youll be like this mr2 I got right now..it's owner had waited way too long to the point his oil saturated t-belt had let go. I'm yet to find out if theres interference & internal damage..

[Red]

kona, when the timing belt snaps on a 4AGE there is no damage from intereference or other issues. The engine is a low-performance conservative build (unlike Honda) so if the belt snaps and the valves rattle around with no timing, they'll still never hit the pistons. Good old fashioned obsolete engineering.<G>

[KonaTrueno723]

kona, when the timing belt snaps on a 4AGE there is no damage from intereference or other issues. The engine is a low-performance conservative build (unlike Honda) so if the belt snaps and the valves rattle around with no timing, they'll still never hit the pistons. Good old fashioned obsolete engineering.<G>

Thnks red..man that's a sigh of relief! I'm taking a break,i jus got thru degreasing & power washing..much like toasty's car, engine oil was just all over the place & underneath...filthy as crap!

[carbd7age]

Toasty the more pics you post the better. Remember gravity helps make the mess worse. From the top you have valve cover grommets, then Valvoline cover gaskets, then cam seals, head gasket, oil pump main body, then crankshaft seal, then oil pan gasket at the bottom. On the driver side of the engine you have all that stuff with oil filter, oil pressure switch and drain plug sprinkled in between.

So if your valve covers are leaking super bad and pouring oil everywheres, there is no logical reason to change the seals all willy nilly. You need to give that dude a good bath (don't flood the distributor, do it with the engine running) and drive around for a minute then look for the wet spot, service accordingly.

Post more pictures!

[Jeonsah]

This is something that would take a little bit of knowledge. You have to basically take everything apart and remember how to put it all back together. Then you have to worry about setting up the camshafts and setting the timing on the engine. Its not hard at all and you could do all of it in a weekend but you would need to have a little bit of experience underneath your belt to accomplish it. If you would really like to accomplish replacing the gaskets, I can walk you through the steps to complete them all. All in all, its pretty basic to do but as a beginner it may require researching a few things.

1. Learn how to set the engine at TDC
2. Learn how to properly insert the distributor
3. Learn how to set the timing
4. Learn how to remove/install the camshafts

Once you know how to do these, the rest is pretty easy. The coolant leaks would require you to drain the coolant and take apart the water pump and upper water neck to completely replace all those gaskets. Lastly, if your car has AC or Power Steering, it will require more work to remove everything.

[carbd7age]

Yeah all that^^^^^. A Haynes manual will show you everything step by step in print and pictures, plus some pretty good diagrams. If anything doesn't make sense to you, don't be afraid to ask. Keep in mind just about everybody with the same engines as you has, at one point or other, had the same issues you are having. Everybody's valve covers leak at one point. Everybody's distributor seal leaks at one point. Hell the oil pump on my Camry exploded the other day. Fun times there....

[KonaTrueno723]

Whew'.......the mr2 is done & runnin prety good . It still has a leak however at the rear main seal so i'm convincing the customer to seriously consider a clutch job with that repair.

Hey uh' toasty..you got some awesome people on here whos offered alot of great info & advice on the subject to help you! If your up to the task & want to learn the challenge on tackling it yourself, thats power to you..! If your not, that's ok too. The estimate you got for $561.43 is prety darn close to what I would charge for the job.

Good luck & if your in need of any assistance, please don't hesitate to ask.
Well, gotta go back to work..a Tacoma just pulled in.

[carbd7age]

Konatrueno can you give me an estimate for an oil pump job on a 97 Camry 5SFE? Just labor for R&R oil pump drive gears. I'm trying to convince my wife the money I saved on labor should be blown on car parts.

[KonaTrueno723]

Konatrueno can you give me an estimate for an oil pump job on a 97 Camry 5SFE? Just labor for R&R oil pump drive gears. I'm trying to convince my wife the money I saved on labor should be blown on car parts.

Understood..I'll get on the computer at the shop in the morning & get that for ya..

[allencr]

Leaks always follow gravity & usually wash away any built up road grime.

Should I move forward with repairs? Start looking for a swap? I'm nervous to put too much into a high mileage motor when I could spend some more cash on a potentially more reliable swap.

Lets see how you first do with finding the leak source/s and maybe cleaning the engine without filling important bits with water & smegma before you take on anything more adventurous.

[KonaTrueno723]

Konatrueno can you give me an estimate for an oil pump job on a 97 Camry 5SFE? Just labor for R&R oil pump drive gears. I'm trying to convince my wife the money I saved on labor should be blown on car parts.

Understood..I'll get on the computer at the shop in the morning & get that for ya..

carbed7age.. Sorry for the late reply..hectic day here at the shop. We're totally hijacking this thread so apologies in advance toasty..

I went back in my records to find this one.. The invoice copy showed my last 5SFE oil pump/t-belt service which indicates for just the oil pump replacement a 1 1/2 hour charge, @ $75 an hour. (it's $90 an hr now..Toyota is $120 & up)

Toyota calls for 3.2 labor hours to change the oil pump assy only. According to toyota, this is not a t-belt service..but just the removal of those components to reach the pump, drain & remove the oil pan, replacement of the pump, then back in reverse order.

Now besides the t-belt service on that job, it took me just half the time to replace the oil pump cause I didn't remove the oil pan as Toyota specified. I'm assuming your doin the job yourself..the aisin pump is driven by the belt & not at the crank like the 4age & if your careful, take your time, you could pull this off yourself with no issues. And be sure to clean all mating surfaces, free of debris & old silicone if your planned on doing it.
Also caution, there are two versions of these oil pumps, one w/sensor & one without so be sure to check your old pump first before buyin.

FYI..amazon got a 100% brand new oil pump for the 5SFE for $75..might find it cheaper elsewhere. Shop around.

Mike

[carbd7age]

Thanks Mike! I've already done it, the big O ring between the two oil pump halves was leaking, so I didn't have to take the main body off, which meant no oil pan or exhaust removal. It took me almost 8 hours cuz my impact gun exploded on the crank pulley, so add 3 trips to Lowes lol. What really sucks is I replaced the timing belt, leaking water pump, and leaking cam seal just two summers ago. I would have done the oil pump, too had I known it was a high mileage issue.


Back on topic: Toasty what's going on?

[toastypbj]

Glad to see so many well thought out replies! Thank you all! I'm crazy busy with work at the moment. However, I've got a couple days off (Sun-Mon). My friend is going to let me use his garage so I can take some time to tinker a bit. I'll post pics and a detailed update around then.

[ronny]

pull the engine.

set it on the stand and replace everything =D

[hachidustin]

With a clean engine it should be easy to spot leaks. You can add UV dye to the engine oil to make it easy to see oil leaks, using the same black light that is used for AC leaks. Same dye, same suppliers if your local shop doesn't have it.

You can also talc the entire (clean) engine compartment, and any leaks will eave tracks as they run through the talc dust, making them easy to spot. Talc, not cornstarch or other powders. Talc is also a lubricant and protectant for rubber parts, critters don't eat it, it doesn't toast or burn, so again there's no downside.

I was actually about to post and ask how to find the best way to find oil leaks are. Thanks for this guys!

[KonaTrueno723]

Thanks Mike! I've already done it, the big O ring between the two oil pump halves was leaking, so I didn't have to take the main body off, which meant no oil pan or exhaust removal. It took me almost 8 hours cuz my impact gun exploded on the crank pulley, so add 3 trips to Lowes lol. What really sucks is I replaced the timing belt, leaking water pump, and leaking cam seal just two summers ago. I would have done the oil pump, too had I known it was a high mileage issue.


Back on topic: Toasty what's going on?

Yeah I can relate to air tools failing! I'm on my fourth ingersol.. Awesome it all worked out on that pump. Just like our tools, mechanical failure happens & sometimes when we least expect it. Even to our ever so reliable toyotas..!

[KonaTrueno723]

Glad to see so many well thought out replies! Thank you all! I'm crazy busy with work at the moment. However, I've got a couple days off (Sun-Mon). My friend is going to let me use his garage so I can take some time to tinker a bit. I'll post pics and a detailed update around then.

It's a great start...! I dunno about the pics tho'..I think I've seen enough oil & grime for the week

[toastypbj]

Sorry for no updates. I had the cam seals done. Oil is now nearly perfect. I've got a leaky dizzy and on the hunt for a replacement. Thanks for everyone's suggestions!!!

[carbd7age]

Dizzy only leaks from 2 possible places: big O ring or the middle bearing. Easy fixes both

[Deuce Cam]

I didn't bother reading the whole thread, but have you replaced the valve cover gaskets and grommets? They're known to leak, especially if one doesn't apply sealer at the corners when installed. On top of that I've found the valve cover fasteners need to be re-tightened to spec fairly regularly to keep them sealed up.

I thought my dizzy was leaking on my old 4age but it was actually the valve cover gaskets.

[toastypbj]

Dizzy only leaks from 2 possible places: big O ring or the middle bearing. Easy fixes both

Hey carbd7age, I'm curious, if there's a ton of oil inside the dizzy, should I just go ahead and order a re-manufactured one? Or should I just buy the rebuild kit, clean out the (tons) of oil, and call it good? What product would work best to clean oil inside the dizzy?

I'm in a position right now where I don't mind the cost of a re-manufactured dizzy if that's a safer bet. But, genuinely wouldn't mind rebuilding it if it's worth my time.

I didn't bother reading the whole thread, but have you replaced the valve cover gaskets and grommets? They're known to leak, especially if one doesn't apply sealer at the corners when installed. On top of that I've found the valve cover fasteners need to be re-tightened to spec fairly regularly to keep them sealed up.
I thought my dizzy was leaking on my old 4age but it was actually the valve cover gaskets.

Deuce Cam, at this point, I'm 100% positive there's a ton of oil in the dizzy. So I'll be going the route of fixing or replacing it, depending on what ya'll think is best.

[Red]

toasty,
I don't remember the name but IIRC there's a place up in Canada that sells rebuild kits for the distributors, correct o-ring and whatever else is needed along with instructions. If no one chimes in, check the web for that. I've got a vague and probably wrong memory that the kit was <$50 and the only hard part was driving out a drift pin or some other easy-to-miss part. (Haven't used it, was anticipating ahead.)

To clean out the old oil you mainly need a clean rag. If there's a little film left, it shouldn't hurt anything unless it is up on the contacts, in the cap and rotor. That needs to be solvent cleaned and you could use almost any solvent to clean that off. Electrical contact spray, alcohol, anything that won't melt anything else it touches in the distributor.

[toastypbj]

Hey Red,

For everyone as a future reference, here's the link. I've had it bookmarked for eons, just in case. http://www.kbox.ca/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=213

I think I'll go this route, I'm going to pick up a new rotor and cap, just because they are hella cheap anyways. I'll get started on the rebuild when I get the parts, hopefully by next week.

[Red]

FWIW, when you look for the cap you might look for a black one not a red one. Some time back a number of folks (mainly running without the heat shield and cap "condom") had the red caps melting on them, but no one reported that problem with the black ones.