Dyno graph blacktop with 304/288 Toda cams

[jim20]

We just did another blacktop fwd racecar on the same dyno as my AE92 Corolla (168whp with the Tomei poncams and Mines ecu). Not sure what happened to that thread btw. This engine has built bottom half probably around 12.5:1 compression and using the 304/288 Toda cam combination without vvt. Head is completely stock including stock valve springs. Tuned with an AEM Series 2 plugnplay unit repinned for the 20 valve engine. We were expecting it to make more power than my engine but was pleasantly surprised by the good low rpm torque. I believe the stock valve springs may be restricting high rpm power.

[oldeskewltoy]

304/288 combo (in 16V) should twist well over 9000 rpm..... noting your comment about the surprise torque, I'd check cam timing....

[jim20]

We actually tried to dial in the cams using degree wheel and dial indicator guage. Our aim was to get both intake and exhaust to 102 degrees. Must confess that we hadn't done degree timing in years so I wont swear we got it right. The cams were some used ones from a previous project so we never had the actual cam spec sheet. So the decision to go with 102 degrees was based on some Toda cam info we had found online. We were hoping to get closer to 175whp from this project so slightly disappointed so far.

[eightsixgts]

We actually tried to dial in the cams using degree wheel and dial indicator guage. Our aim was to get both intake and exhaust to 102 degrees. Must confess that we hadn't done degree timing in years so I wont swear we got it right. The cams were some used ones from a previous project so we never had the actual cam spec sheet. So the decision to go with 102 degrees was based on some Toda cam info we had found online. We were hoping to get closer to 175whp from this project so slightly disappointed so far.

I'm running my 304/288 cams at 98 and 102 degree lobe centers.

[jim20]

Thanks for that info. Will try that setting on our next dyno trip. What valve springs are you using? Do you think the factory ones are adequate for these cams?

[eightsixgts]

Thanks for that info. Will try that setting on our next dyno trip. What valve springs are you using? Do you think the factory ones are adequate for these cams?

I don't have hard facts to prove this, but I understand anything larger than 272 you really want to run upgraded valve springs. Also, the factory springs are known to start floating around 8k, which could explain why your power starts to drop off towards the end of your graph. I'm running TODA valve springs with my cams and they seem to work fine. I would strongly suggest upgrading those springs. I'm sure someone with more 20V experience can chime in and help further as most of my knowledge is with 16v specifically.

[gaijin_rokurunner]

Upgraded springs wont hurt but depends more on your lift then the duration when contemplating purchasing springs or not. The hp numbers look good and all torque figures will start to go down once u pass that peak. My toda cams are 10.7mm lift 300 duration and toda recommends setting them between 100-105 degrees...mines are currently set to 102 but we havent played with them to find the sweet spot yet due to the engine issue...you got all that money in ecu and pistons why not upgrade the valves for better flow...? I had some valves made that provide 18% better flow over stock, with port work and cams like my head it flows 40% more then stock.

[Duy-]

^ you got my attention

do you have a build thread and dyno results? ive considered 3 angle valve grinds/port/polish but ive never quite understood by flows better. ive driven smallports and bluetops that have had it done but i honestly cant feel any real difference besides a smoother top end

[gaijin_rokurunner]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1026


u wont notice to much difference unless u add stuff to complement the valve and port jobs....better intakes, headers, valves, cams....an engine is a big air pump basically to make more power u got to make it breathe more efficiently.....add an intake to allow more air in u got to add a better exhaust to let that air out....add cams, u want to have better or bigger valves to take advantage of that lift and duration and with better flowing or bigger valves u want port work as well....everything works hand in had....u wouldnt add a higher capacity ignition without better wires and plugs......everything complements something else that complements something else.

[jim20]

Our cams are the regular 9mm lift ones. A properly done cylinder head is definitely on the agenda but we had a couple races coming up and ran out of time. We did a compression test today which revealed 240psi on all four cylinders, which I believe accounts for the strong low rpm power. Just need to find another 10-15whp up top. The car competes against some B16 Hondas now making closer to 200whp .

[gaijin_rokurunner]

carbon fiber drive shaft will give u 3-5 more whp......try short velocity stacks inside an enclose plenum...should give u a few more up top....and u can always bore the block bigger for more displacement when u rebuild...other then that u are limited without a good flowing head...or cams with sufficient lift...even with high lift cams if you dont have high compression you wont get the revs u need to make good power.....