Car Dies after a few seconds

tercelica
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Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby tercelica » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:10 pm

Hey everyone. I have a 1986 Corolla gts, I picked it up from a buddy of mine however it has a staying on problem. When ever i try to start it, normally it will stay on for a few seconds, I haven't worked on Corollas much nor 4age's but If i had to make an educated guess and from what research so far has told me, its probably just my Cold start injector whats keeping it on those few seconds. Anyway I also found that I should test the individual injectors as well, so I did. Lack of finding my multimeter I used a test light, which lit on all the injectors. I checked looked at grounds I could see and they all seem to be there, enlighten me if there are some ninja grounds I didn't see or are normally a cause for this. From what my buddy told me when he sold me the car, was that he was driving home and out of nowhere the car dimmed out on him, died and just stopped working. Any ideas? Thank again.

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Jeonsah
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby Jeonsah » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:21 pm

There is a connector by the air flow meter connector. It is a two pin connector. So it will have two wires going into it and it should not be connected to anything. Grab a paper clip and jump this connector. You should hear your fuel pump turn on and stay on. Then try starting the car. If the car stays running, then it has something to do with your air flow meter (AFM) connector. There are also a couple other things you can check:

1. The COR relay is actually working. Apply voltage across the coil and you should hear a clicking sound. This is the switch opening/closing and it is a sign that your relay is good.
2. Check to make sure the air flow meter connector is grounded. I believe its ground wire is brown. You can do this by using a multimeter at putting it on the continuity test. Then putting one prob on the wire and the other on the chassis.
3. Check for 12v at the injectors when the key switch is on.


First start off with jumping that connector because that will give you a better idea of whats wrong with the car. I have had this problem before.

Good luck, and I hope this helps.

*all this information was available before the site crashed. So I am posting this in hopes of helping the new site / community out*

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Jeonsah
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby Jeonsah » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:23 pm

Also have you checked the general things such as:

1. loose battery cables
2. Bad battery
3. Bad alternator


Dont forget to check those. Dimming lights are usually related with either the headlight switch or the charging circuit.

tercelica
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby tercelica » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:29 pm

Okay, so far I've tried making sure the battery terminals were seated properly and I put the paper clip in the two wire connector and still nothing. I think it actually got worse because now it doesn't even start up for the few seconds anymore like it did prior... Doesn't seem like it even attempts to run off the cold start any more... Not liking this car right now. Feeling like a junkyard donation soon :/

I know I am getting spark, and I can hear the fuel pump but other than that what am I missing here? The COR is in the glovebox right? I never messed with a corolla before so a little lost on some of the locations(really sucks I can't search for the straight answer since the crash.) I have to pick up another voltmeter tomorrow since I completely lost mine... Other than that still no dice on the car. If anything it got worse??

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socal_48
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby socal_48 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:02 pm

also check your spark plugs. might be fouled. happened to me.

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Jeonsah
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby Jeonsah » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:38 pm

Don;t donate the car! A lot of us (even me) have had the problem you are having. Im here to help you out!


First - Post a picture of the connect you jumped. I want to make sure it is the right one. THE COR is located behind the glove box. It is a black relay with a lime green connector underneath (i believe)


So you checked the battery cables. You can now check for spark. Try taking the spark plug wires off one at a time and making sure there is a spark. You can do this by removing the end of the spark plug wire that goes over the spark plug and holding it close to the chassis. Have someone crank the engine and you should see it sparking. Do this with every wire including the coil wire. Just be careful not to shock yourself. I still have a feeling its your AFM(air flor meter). If you have a friend who has an extra you could try swapping it. Post up some more things you find after you try these things!

Good luck man and dont give up!

tercelica
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby tercelica » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:27 am

Okay, well I'm trying to get this sad gts running otherwise i'm going to gut it maybe use some of the parts on my 75 Celica and then dump the shell. Thats if motivation continues to decline. It's bringing me down just sitting there. But anyway here is a picture of the two plugs I seen near the AFM.

This is the one I have a jumper wire connected to. Didn't make any difference to the what is now a No start condition.
Image

Here is another plug i saw near the AFM, Haven't tried putting a jumper wire on it, but I will if you guys advise i do.
Image


Also this wire I found below the fuse box, looks like originally it was a brown wire. Not sure what its supposed to go to if anything? Figure you might have an idea if it would cause the no start condition.
Image


There is spark, I had checked all the plug wires with a spark plug in each and they all spark. I have yet to pull the plugs to see if they are foul'd only because I was under the assumption they were good because originally, the car would start for a few seconds then die, IE still running off what was in the Intake manifold from cold start. What I did notice however, there was some oil in the well where the spark plugs sit. Going to clean it up a bit tomorrow before work. Don't know if that would cause the spark plugs to not fire off. I will pull the plugs out anyway tomorrow and make sure they look decent.

Other than that, If the connector i have is the correct one with the wire jumping it, then still start condition continues. Thanks again fellas.

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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby Jacare » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:45 am

Where are you located? I'd rather buy he car from you than see it get scraped

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Jeonsah
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby Jeonsah » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:34 pm

Hmm. That first picture is the correct plug. So if that makes it a no start condition, then I am unsure. There used to be a good thread on here about this particular issue. My basic rule is that you need fuel , spark, and air to get the engine to run.

Fuel:
1. Check for 12v at the injectors when the key is on
2. Bad AFM (this turns on the fuel pump)
- one of the brown wires needs to be checked to see if it is actually grounding the AFM. With a multimeter, you can test for continuity between the wire and the chassis. If the AFM is not grounded, it will no operate at all. It looks like your AFM meter connector boot is torn, so it is a possibility.
3. Bad COR
4. Bad temperature sensor
5. Junk blocking a fuel line or fuel filter
6. Bad FPR
7. Bad fuel pump

If you are getting spark, then either your not getting fuel or your AFM meter could be bad and not informing the ecu of how much air its taking in. Also, if you have a bad temperature sensor, I would assume that ecu has no way of seeing a cold start condition. First I would try to find someone with a new AFM and swap that and then at the very end, id start thinking about the fuel pump(because you have to drop the tank to get to it).

Since your jumper plug does not work, there seems to be a wiring issue. Normally you can jump that plug and make sure there is fuel coming out of the rail. It seems some of the wires you have may be bad. To check the wiring, I would start off by checking your grounds. I believe there is the one on the intake manifold by the fuel rail. This one is for the injectors I believe. Then you should one from the engine cylinder head to the chassis, then another one by the fuse box. Those are all I can think of now at the moment. After you have confirmed that your grounded and set, I would try to trace any broken wires. If you can find the other end of them then you can resolder them. Each wire has its own color/pattern on it.

If none of these things work, ill try to get my factory service manual and we can go from there.

I hope some of this helps. Ever since the forum crashed, theres barely any information/people to help out. I not the smartest guy but ill try to help ya out ^_~

tercelica
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby tercelica » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:31 pm

With the time I had I basically repeated a few of the same things which at least it seems like it starts for a few seconds again, which is progress. I made sure my jumper wire was in and tried starting it. Still same symptoms. I'm gonna pick up another multimeter after work so I'll give you the results after I check them. I might just buy another afm as well off the bay of e considering I don't really know anyone with an ae86.

I appreciate the help, I'm hoping this site gets back up and running again like before. A lot of smart hachi guys out there.

tercelica
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby tercelica » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:22 am

Okay so I picked up a cheap multimeter(just in case i find my old one i got a low budget one).
1. first thing I checked was the Injectors for 12V with Key on. I am not getting 0Volts on the Injectors with Key on. Whats next after that one? Check grounds?
2. I Checked the brown wires on the AFM and one is getting continuity.

That's basically where I stopped since I'm not getting nothing at the Injectors. Probably after work I'll pick up a new Relay or just see if anything around mine is out of the ordinary.

tercelica
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby tercelica » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:08 pm

Scratch that last... I do have 12V going to my injectors.

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Jeonsah
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby Jeonsah » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:17 pm

Alright. So ill grab my FSM this sunday and ill help you out some more. Theres a test you can do on the AFM but I do not remember it because it is in the FSM. As far as the injectors go, we know you got 12v. Im not sure if you can test the ground pins on each connector because I believe the are grounded through the ecu. The ecu pulses them to ground. With this information you could try a couple more tests:

1. Grab the COR relay behind the glove box (block and lime green colored) and test it. Test it by supplying grounding one of the coil pins, and supplying 12v to the other coil pin. When this happens, you should hear a switch moving inside. To completely test it, check the continuity of the switch to verify that it is actually closing.

2. It seems like your jump connector is bad or your fuel pump is on its way out. So

A. Test the pins on the jumper connector for continuity (both the power and ground wires). This will make sure no wires are broken.
B. Test the fuel pressure at the fuel rail. I dont remember exactly what is needed to do this. Ill look when I get my FSM. But this should tell you if your pump is on its way out or not.

3. Lastly, double check all your fuses, connections, and check the compression of the engine.

I hope Im helpin you out and not showering you with too much information. Anyways, Give these things a try and hopefully we can get further.

Vic

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Jeonsah
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby Jeonsah » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:26 pm

Heres some info that may help you out as well:

http://www.dorikaze.net/showthread.php? ... ay-running


also another good thing you could try: is back by the fuel pump connector (in the trunk of the car). You can supply 12v/ground to the wires on the connector that go to the fuel pump. This will force the pump to stay on. Then try to start your car. This is what the jumper connector should be doing.

Dont Give up!

tercelica
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby tercelica » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:44 pm

Okay, I swapped out the AFM completely with a working one, no dice there. I'll do the tests tonight after work... Sucks having a job sometimes, but I have to fund my driveway paperweights some how.

Appreciate it, slowly its eating my morale but I still like the Hachi so I wont get rid of it anytime soon.

tercelica
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby tercelica » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:42 am

Okay, so I got the car running up until the battery dies. I took the alternator to get tested and it was tested bad... So I put a new one in and still dies when the batt is low. So since because it was a wiring nightmare already to begin with I'm just going to try redoing the alternator wires.

What I did to get it running. Not sure exactly, I went to the junk yard and got a COR relay and a the efi main relay. When I put the ign to on also my check engine light didint come kn, so when i looked online i found that its the black red wite by the fuse box with the black connector that supplies the ecu with power. soo i thought why not look under the fuse box to see if any of the wires were not normal, so I pulled it out and found the blk-red wire was all crapped out... So I put a wire to that just to see if it would start. It starts but just runs till the battery is low.

Thanks for the help! I'm going to fix these alternator wires and see what happens today :)

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Ryusei_Date
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby Ryusei_Date » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:53 pm

When my AE86 was being fixed after the accident I got in on the last forum, mine wouldn't start at all, but the distributor and cap for it could be a factor in case you aren't getting big enough a spark to fuel all the spark plugs to keep it running? It could be a fix as easy as that but I can't be certain, hope this helps.
my car: 1986 Toyota AE86 coupe

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Jeonsah
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby Jeonsah » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:06 pm

I am very happy you got the car running. I myself and a lot of other people have had to strive to get our crappy corollas just to run. Even though it is not fun to do, it is the best way to grow up in the AE86 community. I hope you decide to keep your car and continue to build it. Great job on getting it to work again. If you ever need anymore help, you can always pm me.

Vic

tercelica
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Re: Car Dies after a few seconds

Postby tercelica » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:46 pm

Yeah, I'm going to keep it for a while. I am planning to get this running well, bodywork and then just use it as my daily, nothing crazy. Not sure how long I will keep it, but it wont get scrapped :D. I have a 75 Celica with a 3SGTE to deal with, and that's the bigger black whole so I'm new to the AE86 world. Just trying to narrow down this Alternator problem now. Car is still running off the battery, and I don't think the alternator is charging the battery, and if it is, its very low. I figured since it was a wiring wreck its somewhere from the alternator to the battery :(. Might just redo all the alternator wires all together.

Also thanks again for all the help.

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