Seeking w58 guidance

ae86dipset
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Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:10 pm

T-50 crapped out again , been reading up on the different routes to make the w58 work both adapter or bellhousing ..was wondering for the anybody that has the w58 for any advice or point to someone that has or sells these parts .. Thanks !

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby tchybrid » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:06 am

SOOO..... there is a search feature that would show that many people have talked about this topic, and talked it to the ground... and then some, buried it, dug it up, and buried it some more...

ANYWAYS... everyone's consensus abot bell housing or adapter plate. people prefer to go Bellhousing as you don't have to modify the throwout bearing bracket or position of the pilot bearing. the bell housing is alot more expensive, but the most "OEM" looking solution, plus in my opinion, the strongest. I just aquired a W58 to 4ag bellhousing and can't wait to put in my w58 for my up and coming turbo project. i've also recently got in contact with Brendan from Nite Parts in New Zealand, the guys who make the Nite Parts W58 bell housing. he quoted me $607 US to have one of his bellhousings shipped to me in Buena Park. he also has a few in stock and will be getting another batch in within the month.

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:46 pm

Hahahaha yes this topic has been buried to the ground , I did search this topic just wanted one last reassurance that I want to go this route , I was looking at the adapter kit from azcustoms and also the bellhousing from nite parts that was the only thing I wasn't sure If I went with the bellhousing would I still need the T/O or pilot mod but thanks for clearing that up , would come out to $453 shipped to SoCal but you would have to run the pilot spacer , personally I would much rather have the bellhousing route which now I will be contacting nite parts . Thanks for the info and apologize for the repeated questions on a topic that has been talked about lol!

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby DavidCurtis » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:05 pm

I just finished this. Worked for the very first time yesterday. It was very frustrating because everyone told me to "search" and I could never find the right answers. So here is how I did it.

NiteParts Bellhousing. Super Nice guy to work with, and the bellhousing was great quality. brendan@niteparts.co.nz

Clutch. I bought one from illegal garages it was a good product, and a nice guy, but it didn't work for me. It slipped under boost, but I put down 283whp. Once I hit boost it just wouldn't hold. I took a used XTD stage three down to a local shop and they were able to switch out the center splines of the w58 and had them re pad it. Personally I think that is best option for a clutch. Most local clutch shops can swap out the centers and rivet in new ones for cheap.

I took the w58 trans brace and cut the ends off, then welded the ends of the t50 trans braces to it so it bolted to the car.

For a driveshaft I just had one custom made. I took it to a guy I know at a 4x4 shop and had him do it.

I used the stock corolla slave, with the w58 clutch fork.

One tricky part was the throw out bearing. The t50 throw out bearing doesn't slip on to the w58 shaft. Most stock w58 throw out bearings will work, but different ones change engagement. When you get a w58 just make sure it comes with a throw out bearing. The one that came on mine was aftermarket so I changed it for a new stock one so that the pedal engaged higher on the pedal, all though that can be adjusted with the master and the slave cylinder.

for shifter position look for the ones that are further back. I have the farthest forward one and had to cut my tunnel, and my shifter itself is from a truck so I can reach it. It is what came with the car and I couldn't find the position I wanted in time.

That is all I think. Let me know if you need to know anything else.

ae86dipset
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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:13 am

Oh thanks for the info now I'm pretty much ready to make the move and buy this w58 adapter, when you delt with Brendan from nite parts did you have to do a bank transfer , because he told me they don't take PayPal

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby DavidCurtis » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:51 pm

Yea, i was kinda weirded out at first. It was kinda skethy. But i had 0 issues with it. Like i was scared to directly transfer the money to some guy i didnt know. But it all ended up fine. Guy is a super trustworthy guy. He is also reallyknowledgeable. Guy knows his ae86's.

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:48 pm

So quick update bought the bellhousing from niteparts super cool dude and fast shipping ,spent all day today at the junkyards looking for a w58 and no luck ! >.< ended finding one through work from my parts guy and went ahead and ordered it. I did manage to find the yoke of a supra that I will be having our shops driveline company make me a one Piece. To anyone running this setup what slave to use the t-50 or w58 ? Awhile back when the t-50 slave started giving me problems I ended swapping out the spring inside to a heavy dusty x-runner slave so since then it has been ok

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby gbogho » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:30 am

I just got my niteparts bellhousing too. Did yours come predrilled for the clutch slave? Because mine did not. I have a sr5 automatic transmission x-member that I'm gonna try and use. I also plan on using the t50 slave with the w58 arm, throwout bearing and hub. I haven't run all of these components yet, so I don't know how well they work together.

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:14 pm

They don't come pre-drilled so you can choose to run the w58 or t- 50 slave, I'm also at the stage where I'm trying to get all the parts together , what car did your w-58 your using come off from ?

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby gbogho » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:25 am

A celica with a 22r. The shifter position on mine is supposed to allow you not to drill a new shifter hole

ae86dipset
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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:32 pm

Image fitting the w58 with the nite parts bellhousing

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby mad_86 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:27 pm

-ae86 dipset

Does the Stock 86 trans cross member bolt right up??

ae86dipset
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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm

No needs custom crossmember or I think a automatic one of another Toyota can't remember which one

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby gbogho » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:12 am

I'm in the process of sorting my clutch slave mounting. I'm using a stock gts slave and an illegal garage clutch setup. How far does the ram/pin need to move? Or how about the TO arm?

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:57 pm

I'm not at the stage yet since I decided to open the trans up and rebuild it, but I would think eyeball the throw of the fork full compression and release ?

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby tak209 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:44 pm

this thread has the most information in one place ive read. i am also doing the w58 conversion, and was looking to see what clutch fork to use and what slave to use also, this has all that info and a list of all the manufactures that make the housings and plate that people commonly request. i am currently waiting on a clutch to get made for mine from illegal garage (max) so i hope since im not putting down as much power as you were that mine would be ok.. but as far as finding the info turtles thread has some information but not exactly a list of what you need to complete the swap the "cleanest" way but his wasnt really a guide.

also i cant find the post but IIRC the automatic ae86 crossmember works perfectly.

i think this info should be a sticky in the tech section or somewhere.

i think its also funny how people say this topic has been talked to death when i recently went to a toyota car meet and a lot of people barely knew you could swap a w58 trans..... people thought i was crazy. lol

anyways thanks for a lot of good info on here. i appreciate it. =)

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:38 pm

Glad this was useful just wanting to share my experience/information because I went into this swap blind and had to research around for this information , I just ordered a illegal clutch from max a couple days ago still trying to decide which flywheel to run at the moment

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby Turtle » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:58 am

tak209 wrote:this thread has the most information in one place ive read. i am also doing the w58 conversion, and was looking to see what clutch fork to use and what slave to use also, this has all that info and a list of all the manufactures that make the housings and plate that people commonly request. i am currently waiting on a clutch to get made for mine from illegal garage (max) so i hope since im not putting down as much power as you were that mine would be ok.. but as far as finding the info turtles thread has some information but not exactly a list of what you need to complete the swap the "cleanest" way but his wasnt really a guide.

also i cant find the post but IIRC the automatic ae86 crossmember works perfectly.

i think this info should be a sticky in the tech section or somewhere.

i think its also funny how people say this topic has been talked to death when i recently went to a toyota car meet and a lot of people barely knew you could swap a w58 trans..... people thought i was crazy. lol

anyways thanks for a lot of good info on here. i appreciate it. =)


Indeed my write up was more of a story that was cagey on the details, but since the information is flowing on this one, I figure I'd chime in with my experience.

Automatic X-member does not work perfectly, but it does work. it offsets the mount and you would only be able to use two bolts from mount to trans instead of 4. I ran it that way with no problems, but i do not drive my car hard. If you drive hard, you should look into mounting it properly, with all 4 bolts fastened. I would say that the SR5 auto x-member is about an inch off. If you can weld, this solution is easy. If you can deal with only 2 bolts, be my guest and leave it unmodified.

These driveshaft combinations work, assuming you're using a GT-S rear end:

MK2 supra manual front half, GT-S rear half.
TE/AE corolla wagon automatic front half, GT-S rear half. This was my setup. haven't compared them lately, but the front half is like 1/8 to 1/4 inch longer than that of the supra. not a big deal.

using an AE SR-5 automatic front half DOES NOTWORK. it is too short by several inches. I don't remember who recommended that, but it's bulljive.

Fork options:

Supra stamped
Supra forged

both can work with the right settings and the right mounting bolt. be careful of clutch drag. I, personally would use the stamped because it works, but if i was able to get the forged to work properly, I would have gone with that because the clips are affixed to both the bearing retainer and the fork.

Slave cylinder:

My experience is with a bellhousing that in my opinion was lower in quality. the mounting point for the slave was a bit low and it would not line up with the dimple on the supra fork. The mounting point may have been made with the T-50 fork in mind, but it didn't make any sense because IIRC the T-50 fork is too small for the w-58 shaft. anyways, My solution was to shim the GT-S slave to match up with the W-58 fork dimple. keep in mind that shimming the slave will increase the distance it needs to push the fork. this worked well with the stamped fork. with the forged fork, not so much, the dimple may have been too deep for the GT-S rod, so it wouldn't push the fork far enough to disengage the clutch properly. If the mounting points for the slave were further back, it may have worked properly but the bellhousing came pre-drilled. I didn't have the time or patience to get it to work, so I would recommend just getting a stamped one. It's a case of what works vs. what I would like to work.

Clutch/Flywheel:

Went with Miracle Max. Good customer service & helped out when I had problems. Had a 212mm flywheel and clutch.

W-58:

I think I pulled mine off an MK3 supra. The mounting point for the shifter is further back. The bellhousing tilted the W-58 a few degrees toward the driver, so i had to cut. Had it not tilted the trans, it would have fit perfectly. I think that the ones with the shifter more toward the middle (from a 22RE equipped celica) would have fit too, but further back is my preference, so I went with that to begin with. If you're patient, wait for a 1/2 off day at the pick and pull when you can get 2 for the price of 1. Do yourself a favor and get one with the shifter mounting point furthest back to begin with. changing the mounting point is really quite difficult, you have to remove the tail end and I think you also need to remove a rod or two. It's really not worth the trouble. I'm finding it difficult to remember what the MK2 supras have, but i think it's the shifter further back.

Cheers,

R

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:04 pm

Thanks for adding great information to this thread , when researching this swap I read your thread for guidance and it was great information, yet again all your threads are very helpful :)

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby mikeyee » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:09 pm

tak209 wrote:this thread has the most information in one place ive read. )


agreed.

here's my contribution.

this is for using the w50 transmission (steel case).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_W_transmission#W50

I came up on this swap through another member that's on here through craigslist a few years back. He used a w50 transmission with an adapter plate to mate to 4age bellhousing to his 4agze. Then a custom driveshaft and trans x-member iirc. 4age throw out, fork, clutch slave, blacktop 4age 212mm flywheel, some pressure plate that worked with the flywheel then 212mm clutch that was resplined to work for a supra. I haven't gotten around to throwing it in my car since my car has been mostly not working, and the t50 hasn't given out yet either. til then it's just sitting and i'll be collecting parts to see if I can get it to work (going to try using rondell's suggestion of the the E7 auto trans x-member and front half driveshaft with gts rear half shaft.)
I also called up the guys over at BRD Racing (who makes the adapter plate) about the w50 and adapter plate whether it works with the aluminum case w-series transmissions (55, 58, etc)... which they told me it doesn't. But he did mention that they always use the w50 over the aluminum case w's because the steel box w50 holds up better for drag racing use. Popping wheelies with turbo 3tc's and using them for a few seasons before replacing them whereas a 58 wouldn't be able to handle that sort of abuse. He mentioned something about the input/output shafts (?) being stronger on the w50.

The adapter plate used was a BRD Racing piece: http://www.brdracing.com/t50_t40_w50_drivetrain.htm (see 3tc-w50 adapter plate)
Supposedly the adapter plated do not come with hardware.
You also need to modify the 4age bellhousing for it to mate with the adapter plate cleanly.
You can see how here did it here: Image (grinding on the transmission side of the bell housing)

anyways, that's what I know about hte w50 and getting it to work with the 4age in a cororra. i'll let you all know how it goes when i get around to finish putting it all together and see if it works or not.

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby mikeyee » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:12 pm


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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby AA01 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:44 am

I've been waiting on a few people to finally gather a thread like this, I have tried several times (with no success) to do such. Good job!

I have been gathering parts for 2 years or so for my W58 swap. Right now I am waiting on ordering a bellhousing and clutch disk. I ended up with a MKIII N/A Supra W58, and an 83 Celica Automatic driveshaft. I'm planning to fab my own tranny mount from a MKIII supra X-member, as my gearbox still had the x-member attached. I will also be running a 212mm flywheel, as I have come onto a lightweight one last year, and i prefer the engagement of the 212mm vs the 200mm. That being said there was a clutch disk i found from a MFG (i cannot recall which at the moment, maybe centerforce?) that did make a clutch disk that should fit. I seem to recall the application was for a jeep with an AX gearbox. The jeep AX gearboxes were Borg-warner, almost identical to the W58 gearbox. They did use the same input shaft splines from what i recall. (please forgive if i made any errors in my statements this is off the top of my head as my documentation is not with me at the moment)

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby tak209 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:14 pm

good stuff guys lets get all the info in one main thread and sticky that thing.
AA01 can you possibly post the part number for that clutch disc? it would be nice to have something you can get at your local part store and not wait weeks to get your car back on the road.

also i can confirm a Auto ae86 sr5 corolla crossmember is direct fit with a mk2 cellica-supra w58.

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby 86boy » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:36 am

For the crossmember i was going to see about getting a custom one made locally, until a friend pointed out this from XcessiveManufacturing. It's currently holding my w58 up under my car. Figured for $100 it wouldn't hurt to try it. Once it's bolted up it's doesn't move as I was kind of worried about the "spacers", but seems solid once it's in the car.

http://www.xcessivemanufacturing.com/ONLINESTORE.html?cid=51&step=4&pid=313

I also have a Niteparts bellhousing, and trying to figure out what to do with the damn slave cylinder. I have the w58 throwout/clutch fork, and also have discovered the mounting point was a little short to line up with the w58 clutch fork. Even though it states on their website to use the 58 throwout, clutch fork, and slave cylinder.

ACT Clutch 6 puck unsprung with a the splines of the w58. If I remember I can get the part number off the box they sent. I called and talked to them, and they've done quite a few so far so they actually created a part number for it. Going to run that with an ACT Xtreme pressure plate.

I am also getting a custom driveshaft made currently. Apparently there's a flange from a toyota pickup that fits the pinion that allows for bigger tubing when going to a 1 piece that will allow for conventional US u-joints instead of the staked u-joints. I'll know more when I get my driveshaft, and make sure 100% if it fits or not. Everything will be new with the driveline being built... even the slip yoke. That's costing around $535... I told him I wanted it strong enough to handle the abuse of drifting. So he's kind of over engineering the driveline which is fine with me.

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:34 pm

That cross memeber looks like it will do the job , I had a friend make me one since I couldnt find anyone making something like this at the time ... I'm using the same bell and had to modify some stuff to make it fit for my setup so don't be afraid to mod the bell accordingly ... Let me know how your driveshaft works out I'm using a two pieace looking for a good one piece setup

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby mikeyee » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:58 am

ae86dipset wrote:That cross memeber looks like it will do the job , I had a friend make me one since I couldnt find anyone making something like this at the time ... I'm using the same bell and had to modify some stuff to make it fit for my setup so don't be afraid to mod the bell accordingly ... Let me know how your driveshaft works out I'm using a two pieace looking for a good one piece setup


what 2-piece set up are you using?

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:09 pm

Front half off a 80 Celica with the 22r, rear gts

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Re: Seeking w58 guidance

Postby ae86dipset » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:14 pm

Picture of the crossmeber came put really nice IMO
Image

Image