Custom shocks and struts
- gotzoom?
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Custom shocks and struts
I will be working with a shock builder on a set of custom Bilstein struts and shocks for the AE86 Corolla. My usage is primarily track and autocross so the valving will be geared more toward that type of usage than daily road usage. The builder has a long history of specializing in shocks that work well for track and are also comfortable on the street, so these should be a great all around shock/strut combination when I am done with development. The builder is also interested in making this a regular offereing for Corolla owners. They would be straight bolt-up shocks/struts for the Corolla with no modifications necessary for the rear shocks and either spacers or cut front strut casing the same as people are doing now with off the shelf struts. We're going to use normal Bilstien HD shocks and inverted struts and produce custom valving that will be vastly better than out of the box is. There will also be an option to make them single or double adjustable if that is interesting to you. If you know what spring rates you intend to run, you will be able to have valving that is custom for those rates done as well.
The question for you is, what would be interesting to you as a potential buyer? I'm already making sure that they will be direct bolt-up with minimal modifications needed. We're not sure on cost yet, and ultimately it will depend on what options you want. For starters, the Bilstien HD shocks and struts are around $500 for the set of four. They will be modified, so that will make the cost more, obviously, but the plan is to offer a quality set of shocks/struts for a fair price given that these are hand built specifically for the Corolla and tuned on the track.
Any feedback is appreciated. No, they won't be $300 for the set, though.
The question for you is, what would be interesting to you as a potential buyer? I'm already making sure that they will be direct bolt-up with minimal modifications needed. We're not sure on cost yet, and ultimately it will depend on what options you want. For starters, the Bilstien HD shocks and struts are around $500 for the set of four. They will be modified, so that will make the cost more, obviously, but the plan is to offer a quality set of shocks/struts for a fair price given that these are hand built specifically for the Corolla and tuned on the track.
Any feedback is appreciated. No, they won't be $300 for the set, though.
Re: Custom shocks and struts
Nice. What you have in mind for the valving sounds great. Care to share any info on the builder?
Aren't the hd shocks long stroke? I also recall reading that they require a special or modified gland nut to fit the ae86 strut tube, but I could be mistaken.
I'm interested in a dual adjustable short stroke setup (grip oriented) that's still relatively comfortable on the street.
Aren't the hd shocks long stroke? I also recall reading that they require a special or modified gland nut to fit the ae86 strut tube, but I could be mistaken.
I'm interested in a dual adjustable short stroke setup (grip oriented) that's still relatively comfortable on the street.
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Re: Custom shocks and struts
I can't say who the builder is just yet. Still working on the logistics. For now, I can say that they have several autocross National Tour and Nationals victories under their belt and a few road race podiums with various cars, so they do have a race pedigree.
They have a full machine shop and the plan is to shorten the stroke and cases to suit our cars when running race springs (they have been doing this for years for other cars.) They have the equipment to make any necessary changes to fit the strut cases too. Worst case, they will come with correct fitting gland nuts so you don't have to hunt for something that fits.
One of the things we need to work on is how many adjustments, if any, will be on my test set. I'm thinking we will probably work primarily toward fixed valving for the commonly used springrate range, since that will keep cost down and will be what most people will buy. Once we get that figured out, we'll work on single and adjustable. If they think we can get good data from adjustable shocks that will help figure out what fixed valving works, we may jump right to adjustables. I expect the project will kick off in July, so I'm really just trying to gauge interest so we can focus on the right things during testing. I'll most likely start off with the customary 8kg/mm front, 6kg/mm rear spring combination. I'm also planning on testing with 10kg/mm front and 8kg/mm rear, since I think that will work better with Nitto NT01 tires that I normally run. I'll also do some testing with Dunlop Star Spec tires to make sure things work well with street tires too.
They have a full machine shop and the plan is to shorten the stroke and cases to suit our cars when running race springs (they have been doing this for years for other cars.) They have the equipment to make any necessary changes to fit the strut cases too. Worst case, they will come with correct fitting gland nuts so you don't have to hunt for something that fits.
One of the things we need to work on is how many adjustments, if any, will be on my test set. I'm thinking we will probably work primarily toward fixed valving for the commonly used springrate range, since that will keep cost down and will be what most people will buy. Once we get that figured out, we'll work on single and adjustable. If they think we can get good data from adjustable shocks that will help figure out what fixed valving works, we may jump right to adjustables. I expect the project will kick off in July, so I'm really just trying to gauge interest so we can focus on the right things during testing. I'll most likely start off with the customary 8kg/mm front, 6kg/mm rear spring combination. I'm also planning on testing with 10kg/mm front and 8kg/mm rear, since I think that will work better with Nitto NT01 tires that I normally run. I'll also do some testing with Dunlop Star Spec tires to make sure things work well with street tires too.
Re: Custom shocks and struts
$500 is too much and won't be worth it when a couple hundred extra bucks can get you a coil-over setup that includes springs.
I mean really, think about it, $500 and I still have to spend $200 on springs or I could get this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/83-87-Corolla-A ... 56&vxp=mtr
Not a deal.
I mean really, think about it, $500 and I still have to spend $200 on springs or I could get this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/83-87-Corolla-A ... 56&vxp=mtr
Not a deal.
pearls ain't free
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Re: Custom shocks and struts
This is not a stance related project. This is a motorsports performance related project. If you don't care about performance, then just get the cheapest thing that dumps your car on the ground. For those of us that are interested in lowering our laptimes, those products are of no use and that is why I'm taking on this project.
Re: Custom shocks and struts
So what you're saying is that something that's not adjustable and uses factory rubber bushings is somehow better for racing?
pearls ain't free
Re: Custom shocks and struts
I'm interested pending more info. I've been wanting to get a new setup for a while but I've been too indecisive about choosing shocks to actually take the plunge. Custom valved bilstein shocks for the ae86 with support stateside seems like a no brainer.
Cavi Mike wrote:So what you're saying is that something that's not adjustable and uses factory rubber bushings is somehow better for racing?
Re: Custom shocks and struts
Since all you can do is post a facepalm picture like this is 4chan, I'm gonna have to assume you've already spent $1,000 on your stock suspension instead of getting some proper* adjustable adapters in the first place. And now that you've made that mistake - you've realized you still don't have a decent set of shocks to match up with your suspension. I mean go ahead, correct me if I'm wrong but something tells me I pretty much hit the nail on the head.
*when I say proper I am NOT referring to the adapters I posted.
*when I say proper I am NOT referring to the adapters I posted.
pearls ain't free
Re: Custom shocks and struts
Well you said his idea is too expensive and implied that people would be better off with ebay coilovers, and your second post doesn't make sense. I felt a facepalm .gif was warranted.
This is not the place to argue about dedicated coilovers vs. modified strut casings with inserts.
This is not the place to argue about dedicated coilovers vs. modified strut casings with inserts.
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Re: Custom shocks and struts
Interesting. I may be diwn depending on if there could be shock dyno comparisons showing where they come in against the trd blues and koni yellows (race fronts, mustang & camaro rears).
Andrew
Andrew
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Re: Custom shocks and struts
Andrew, I think I should be able to get the plots if you have those shocks. I will dyno my ots Koni 8610/QA1 Promastar setup as a comparison. I don't have any other shocks/struts available to me, though. In the past when I have done this kind of thing, the shock builder that I used at the time told me that shock dyno plots don't really transfer from one model of shock to another. Basically, they said that if you build a shock to an existing dyno plot, it rarely works like the original shock that did the plot. These guys are also well known race shock builders, so one would assume they have good experience with this. Once I get going on the project, I can send you plots once I feel like the setup is getting close. In the beginning, we'll be focused on getting the damping we're looking for, so I should have access to plenty of data.
Re: Custom shocks and struts
If you are serious about this, consider jumping straight to the 36mm cartridges for the front over the stock 30mm bilsteins. Last time I checked you couldn't get a whole lot of parts (like the newer double digressive pistons etc) for the fronts, so check with your builder if this changed in the mean time.
36mm cartidges 'might' need to have the inside of the tubes reamed a bit. You can use 3000GT and 180SX fitments for front AE86 shortstroke setups. Or else Ford euro escort mk2 tarmac rally shocks if you go with a dual spring setup (also good source for rears).
The Tokico HTS curves are a decent starting point, those curves in a faster working and more consistent monotube would work VERY well. Forget about adjustment though..just look at the prices for the new adjustable style pistons and rods.. eeek! around 300$ each. The shocks end up in AST custom territory, which are also adjustable and lighter then stock setups (alloy).
36mm cartidges 'might' need to have the inside of the tubes reamed a bit. You can use 3000GT and 180SX fitments for front AE86 shortstroke setups. Or else Ford euro escort mk2 tarmac rally shocks if you go with a dual spring setup (also good source for rears).
The Tokico HTS curves are a decent starting point, those curves in a faster working and more consistent monotube would work VERY well. Forget about adjustment though..just look at the prices for the new adjustable style pistons and rods.. eeek! around 300$ each. The shocks end up in AST custom territory, which are also adjustable and lighter then stock setups (alloy).
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Re: Custom shocks and struts
Larger pistons are definitely something we are thinking about. Ultimately, it will come down to cost, though. The reason that the HD is attractive is that the buyer just follows the same process they would for any other bolt-in shock/strut option that is out there. Thanks for the input!
Re: Custom shocks and struts
Gotzoom? you have PM.
Re: Custom shocks and struts
so when are these babies ready for purchase?
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Re: Custom shocks and struts
The shop is working on clearing it's current backlog. Once that's done, we're starting on my project. I expect we'll get going in July with the first outing either late July or early Aug.
Re: Custom shocks and struts
Any update to this?
2000 Land Rover Discovery II
1989 Toyota Corolla GT-S
1986 Toyota Corolla GT-S
1989 Toyota Corolla GT-S
1986 Toyota Corolla GT-S