First Forum Post Ever!, my odd AE86

[ontourus]

As the title says, I have never posted on a forum before so forgive any ignorance I might have.

About three months ago i bought my first car with my own money, a 1987 modified Toyota Corolla. Had my buddy who is a mechanic come check it out with me, drove the car, it seemed in working order so I bought it.
Sadly by the time we had gotta back to my place, the head gasket had blown, so began my long journey of starting to learn how to work on cars. After ordering the correct gaskets and having some work done on the head, we put the gaskets on, started her up, drove 5 miles and the engine blew up. Luckily my buddy had a buddy who had a 4AGZE from a Mr-2 laying around so we went over and I got it for $40. Over the next couple weekends we removed the old engine and put in our unsupercharged 4AGZE in. After that and what we had seem before, we realized that the previous was what you would call, an intense dumbass, every little thing was messed up in some odd way, we also found out that the factory ECU was gone.
After looking at my options I decided to go with a Sprint 500 programmable ECU from Haltech, which is amazing by the way. Enough story time for now I think, so lets move on.

Pictures :
http://s44.photobucket.com/user/Benny_H ... sort=3&o=0

Current set up.

-4AGZE (no supercharger)
-42 DCOE Weber sidedraft carbs
-Haltech Sprint 500
-MSD 6AL
-MSD Tach adapter
-72 inch camry throttle cable

I know this is this a pretty uncommon set up so I thought it would be worth it to post, ill be happy to answer any questions.

My Questions:

-How much power would a 4agze with carbs make?
-Any ideas for better tuning?
-Currently have a little bit of a sticky throttle.
-easy ways to maker power with this set up?

Also please let me know any general forum mistakes I may have made in this post.
Thanks.
-Ben

[Clouds]

I think that a 4AGZE without a supercharger and with carbs should made 130-140. I think that yoshimitsuspeed might help you because he's an MR2 guy and he knows more than I do.

[burdickjp]

You'll be down on power compared to the naturally aspirated 4A-GEs because you've got a lower compression ratio. If I remember correctly, it's 8.0:1.

If you're running carbs, that Haltech is doing almost nothing! I'd sell it and buy a microsquirt. Megasquirt hardware can run spark only very easily and you'd be money ahead. A regular megasquirt would work as well, and you'd not have to scrounge up a MAP sensor, just have to make peace with fiddly connectors.
Take this as you will, I'm a very, very big fan of megasquirt hardware. I'd choose it over just about anything on the market that isn't a current-version Motec.

[jdm86gtz]

If you have a 4A-GZE and a Haltech then sell the carbs and go turbo

[oldeskewltoy]

My Questions:

-How much power would a 4agze with carbs make?
-Any ideas for better tuning?
-Currently have a little bit of a sticky throttle.
-easy ways to maker power with this set up?

We can throw all kinds of guesses at you about the power it makes... but you can go to a dyno and tell us.......

For the most part... 8 to 1 is not going to make much power without boost... I'd be surprised if it made over 90hp @ the rear wheels

better tuning.... no. more compression on the other hand......

not there for the sticking throttles... look for something binding, you might detach each carb from the linkage and see if things pull smoothly

turbo... or supercharger

[yoshimitsuspeed]

I think 90 at the wheels would be pretty optimistic. I drove my GZE for 6 months without the supercharger and I was getting passed by VW busses and econo model civics with 8 mexicans in it. Honestly I doubt you would be doing much more than 90 at the crank.
As already said, tuning isn't your biggest issue.
You need to go one of a couple different directions.
High compression NA
Low comp boost
Or my favorite high comp boost.
Any way you cut it I would ditch the carbs and move beyond 70s technology.
Get that Haltech running some fuel injectors and you will be taking a huge step forward.
Then decide if you want to go NA or boost.
Then decide how big you want to go and how much you want to spend.

[ontourus]

I think 90 at the wheels would be pretty optimistic. I drove my GZE for 6 months without the supercharger and I was getting passed by VW busses and econo model civics with 8 mexicans in it. Honestly I doubt you would be doing much more than 90 at the crank.
As already said, tuning isn't your biggest issue.
You need to go one of a couple different directions.
High compression NA
Low comp boost
Or my favorite high comp boost.
Any way you cut it I would ditch the carbs and move beyond 70s technology.
Get that Haltech running some fuel injectors and you will be taking a huge step forward.
Then decide if you want to go NA or boost.
Then decide how big you want to go and how much you want to spend.

I really like the idea of going high comp N/A a lot better then just throwing a turbo on it, Most likely Im gonna have it barely legal and track it for the most part so ill be doing full internals when the money comes, in the mean time, any good ways that I can increase compression?

[LongGrain]

if I were you, I'd sell that GZE long block to someone who will make use of it and get yourself a small port high comp motor to build from if high compression N/A is your goal.

[ontourus]

if I were you, I'd sell that GZE long block to someone who will make use of it and get yourself a small port high comp motor to build from if high compression N/A is your goal.

Considering that the GZE is stronger plus oil squirters, im gonna stick with the GZE, plus the option to supercharger is there if I want to.

[totta crolla]

if I were you, I'd sell that GZE long block to someone who will make use of it and get yourself a small port high comp motor to build from if high compression N/A is your goal.

Considering that the GZE is stronger plus oil squirters, im gonna stick with the GZE, plus the option to supercharger is there if I want to.

The smallport is pretty much the same engine without low compression pistons.
An easy way to increase performance would be to fit stock smallport pistons into your engine.

[burdickjp]

Considering that the GZE is stronger plus oil squirters, im gonna stick with the GZE, plus the option to supercharger is there if I want to.

US market GZEs did not come with oil squirters, that I can recall. The only difference between the long block in an MR2 and MR2 supercharged was pistons.

[ontourus]

Did you have a chance to check out the pictures of it? How would one go about knowing if my engine is JDM or not?

[ontourus]

Considering that the GZE is stronger plus oil squirters, im gonna stick with the GZE, plus the option to supercharger is there if I want to.

US market GZEs did not come with oil squirters, that I can recall. The only difference between the long block in an MR2 and MR2 supercharged was pistons.

Did you have a chance to check out the pictures of it? How would one go about knowing if my engine is JDM or not?

[yoshimitsuspeed]

As mentioned the only difference between the GZE and the NA of the same generation is the pistons. Very few 16 valves had squirters and a number of smallports did not. As mentioned none of the US smallports that I know of and I believe the same with the GZE of the same era. JDM is really irrelevant to your question. If you are concerned about squirters then pull the pan off and check.
With that said people have done massive turbo builds and high reving builds without them. Or you can machine them in.
Or you can buy rods that have a squirter port.
What makes you want to stay NA?
I only ask because I believe most people who don't want to go boost do so because of misconceptions about it or because one time they drove a laggy as hell motor and think that's how boost has to be.
If you want to go fast your $/hp ratio will be way better with boost.

I am not a fan of the stock pistons. They have weak rings and aren't terribly high in compression. It will cost a little more but I would go with a nice forged piston.

If you want to go NA this is a great bang for the buck package.
http://www.matrixgarage.com/products/16 ... nd-pistons
I designed the pistons specifically for the cams and they keep you non interference which is nice for a car that isn't a dedicated race car.
It will net you about a 50% gain in power pretty easy.
I can get shelf Arias pistons quite a bit cheaper but they don't have a comperable piston. One down is a good bit lower compression and one higher is a good bit higher in compression with less than desirable topography.

[Moto_Club4AG]

Nice post, Yoshimitsu!


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[ontourus]

As mentioned the only difference between the GZE and the NA of the same generation is the pistons. Very few 16 valves had squirters and a number of smallports did not. As mentioned none of the US smallports that I know of and I believe the same with the GZE of the same era. JDM is really irrelevant to your question. If you are concerned about squirters then pull the pan off and check.
With that said people have done massive turbo builds and high reving builds without them. Or you can machine them in.
Or you can buy rods that have a squirter port.
What makes you want to stay NA?
I only ask because I believe most people who don't want to go boost do so because of misconceptions about it or because one time they drove a laggy as hell motor and think that's how boost has to be.
If you want to go fast your $/hp ratio will be way better with boost.

I am not a fan of the stock pistons. They have weak rings and aren't terribly high in compression. It will cost a little more but I would go with a nice forged piston.

If you want to go NA this is a great bang for the buck package.
http://www.matrixgarage.com/products/16 ... nd-pistons
I designed the pistons specifically for the cams and they keep you non interference which is nice for a car that isn't a dedicated race car.
It will net you about a 50% gain in power pretty easy.
I can get shelf Arias pistons quite a bit cheaper but they don't have a comperable piston. One down is a good bit lower compression and one higher is a good bit higher in compression with less than desirable topography.

The reason why I want to stick to N/A is to try to keep the "purity" of the 86. The lightweight and loud high revving would be more enjoyable for me then if I just slapped a turbo on it. Ill save the turboing for when I get a E30, 240sx, stuff like that, that are meant to be turboed.

Now for that kit, that price was for both cams and 4 pistons? that seems like a extremely good price, If I got that kit, would that be everything I would need to go high comp or would I need more parts?
Thanks.

[Moto_Club4AG]

Yes, you'd need fuel injection system, in the order of reflashing the ECU, stand-alone, or something that can be programmed on a dynamometer and matched to the engine carefully.

High revving NA engines need very precise mapping on 3d level or it just gets anemic in many areas of the mapping. Also, new or upgraded fuel pump just to be safe, a digital ignition goes a long way to get rid of the problematic distributor cap/ rotor system. Heads should be port polished, and meticulously assembled if you're planning a 90000rom engine.

That's the basic end. Optionally you'd probably want an oil cooler, radiator update, flywheel and clutch, modern LSD, brake pad upgrade at least, so you could actually use the car at screaming high revs on a raceway.




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[ontourus]

Yes, you'd need fuel injection system, in the order of reflashing the ECU, stand-alone, or something that can be programmed on a dynamometer and matched to the engine carefully.

High revving NA engines need very precise mapping on 3d level or it just gets anemic in many areas of the mapping. Also, new or upgraded fuel pump just to be safe, a digital ignition goes a long way to get rid of the problematic distributor cap/ rotor system. Heads should be port polished, and meticulously assembled if you're planning a 90000rom engine.

That's the basic end. Optionally you'd probably want an oil cooler, radiator update, flywheel and clutch, modern LSD, brake pad upgrade at least, so you could actually use the car at screaming high revs on a raceway.

you can't go high comp with carbs at least to start with? I do have a haltech sprint 500 and a 6al so i would be able to program it no problem.
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[Moto-P]

Did you mean to reply something with this last post?

[ontourus]

;) Did you mean to reply something with this last post?

yeah to the post before me about high comp lol
im interested in changing my engine to high comp, so im curious about a good set of cams and pistons and what I would need to change to high comp.
So like the whole process from start to finish of going high comp basically.
As said before I have a Haltech sprint 500 and a MSD 6AL so tuning shouldnt be a problem.
Thanks