Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Musink
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Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby Musink » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:20 am

So I have been working on swapping a redtop into my sr5 for about a few months. i finally got everything swapped except for the rear to gts. all harnesses & fuel delivery. So now that i am done its not wanting to start.
-Got Fuel to rails
-got Spark & Ignition
-All grounds & connectors Plugged in

So when i spray starting fluid i get a loud pop from the intake side, i think it may be a timing issue. previous owner had to remove dizzy to remove the headers.
but in the manual it states that the car has to be warm to set timing? being that it wont start how can i bypass that step??

-thoughts? anything will be appreciated.
1986 Sr5>Gtsr5(Soon) Hatch DD.....:D

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jondee86
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby jondee86 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:30 pm

To set the ignition timing when the engine is not running, you
need to follow these steps...

1. Get the #1 cylinder at Top Dead Centre (TDC) on the compression stroke.
Take all the spark plugs out and then let the plug for #1 cylinder (closest to
the crankshaft pulley) sit loosely in the plug hole. Turn the crankshaft in the
forward direction (clockwise) with a socket on the crankshaft pulley bolt, while
listening/watching the loose plug. As the piston comes up the bore on the
compression stroke, the plug will lift a fraction to let the air escape, and you
should be able to hear it escaping.

Watch for the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley. When the piston is at TDC
the timing mark should be opposite the Zero mark on the scale embossed on
the front of the lower cambelt cover. If you have the cam covers off, the lobes
for the #1 cylinder on the camshafts should be pointing away from each other
as shown in the pic. If the cam covers are on, look down inside the oil filler
opening. With stock cams there should be a dimple visible on top of the intake
cam when the cam is at TDC on the compression stroke.

Image

2. Align the marks on the distributor and insert into the head.
In the pic you will see that there will be a dimple or mark on the gear, and
another on the nose of the dissy casting. Line these up as shown, and holding
the dissy with its "ears" horizontal, slide it in to the head and engage the
gears. Put a bit of oil on the O-ring as it can be tight. Do not rotate the dissy
while inserting, slide it straight in. If the dissy gear does not mesh with the
camshaft gear, back it up a fraction, and rotate the dissy a little to the left
or right until it meshes. Set the ears horizontal and nip up the bolts to hold
it in place.

3. Check the rotor is in the right place.
To make sure that everything is in near enough the right place, remove the
cap from the dissy. The end of the rotor should be alongside the pin for the
#1 cylinder sparkplug wire. If it is, your timing is set and the engine will run.

Once the engine is running, follow the instructions here...
AE86 16V - How to set ignition timing - DIY
... for checking and adjusting the timing. It is possible to insert the
distributor one tooth forward or back of the correct position. The engine
should still run, but not as well as it will with the correct timing :)

Cheers... jondee86
Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

Musink
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby Musink » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:34 pm

thanks much Jondee86!
ill do that tonight and hopefully works.
1986 Sr5>Gtsr5(Soon) Hatch DD.....:D

Musink
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby Musink » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:08 am

So the distributor alignment was a success. but now it wont start still, i have replaced my fusible link since i was showing battery charge light and fixed that. im getting 12v to starter and alternator, but i was trying to check if i get 12v to injectors with ignition on but wasnt showing anything???? how would i go about checking 12v properly?
1986 Sr5>Gtsr5(Soon) Hatch DD.....:D

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jondee86
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby jondee86 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:00 pm

To check for voltage and continuity, you will need to shell
out $25-30 for a basic multimeter. Analog or digital is OK.

Then study this... http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Multimeter

Once you have the basics figured, attach the black lead to
a solid chassis ground point, set the instrument to a scale
that measures 12VDC with a decent swing of the reading,
and probe away with the red lead :)

Injectors and ignition get power from the ignition switch, so
the first thing to check would be that you have 12V going to
the ignition switch. If you do, then you should get 12V at the
coil positive and at the injectors when the key is ON.

From memory, there is a single wire (maybe blk/org) out of
the under hood fusebox that supplies the 7.5 amp "IGN" fuse
in the big kick panel junction box. That fuse supplies the
ignition switch. So a good place to start looking for 12V.

Cheers... jondee86
Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

Musink
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby Musink » Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:41 pm

Update>! It starts! easy fix and simple rewiring of fusible link. but now i have come across another issue.
1)-gets fuel to start but wont finish ignition sequence.
2)-high idle @ 2k and fluctuates to 2.5k
3)-when trying to open throttle, more air gets sucked in but no change in RPM.
4)-when i remove plug for tps it RPM surges up to like 6k!!!! so i plugged it back in<--- scary stuff!
-need to set timing.....figures.
1986 Sr5>Gtsr5(Soon) Hatch DD.....:D

Musink
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby Musink » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:06 pm

bump for help
1986 Sr5>Gtsr5(Soon) Hatch DD.....:D

Musink
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby Musink » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:49 am

bump help
1986 Sr5>Gtsr5(Soon) Hatch DD.....:D

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jondee86
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby jondee86 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:16 pm

Starting with one thing at a time...

Image

Locate the AAV port inside the throttlebody, and block that hole temporarily
with a rubber bung from an inflateable toy or something similar. Get the engine
running and once it is warmed up, see if you can get a stable idle at around
850-900 rpm. You might need to adjust the idle air bypass screw which is down
the tube on the side of the throttlebody.

Report back :)

Cheers... jondee86
Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

Musink
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby Musink » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:49 am

So i can get it to idle at 13-1500rpm. but still surges between the mentioned RPM
But now instead of sucking more air in while WOT and no change in RPM, it bogs and starts to die.
Have a bung in AAV port still, should it be removed now?
1986 Sr5>Gtsr5(Soon) Hatch DD.....:D

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jondee86
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby jondee86 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:05 pm

The purpose of blocking the AAV port was to see if the AAV was working.
A working AAV will raise the idle to around 2200rpm on a cold engine,
tapering back to 850/900rpm once the engine is fully warmed up. If yours
started at 2200rpm and did not come down as the engine warmed up,
then your AAV is not working... read here about how to fix...
http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12013

A side effect of the AAV not working is that your warm idle puts your
engine speed high enough for fuel cut to occur. The ECU switches the
fuel off... rpm's drop to below the fuel restore point, and the ECU switches
the fuel back on. This makes it sound like you are blipping the throttle
while waiting at the lights :)

If you don't care about cold starts, then just block the AAV off permanently.

This is an AFM engine... right ? And you have the AFM hooked up ?
Not wanting to rev up when you open the throttle means you are running
out of fuel or spark. The AFM takes care of the fuel, and the TPS takes
care of the spark (simplified version). Just have to figure out which
one is choking your engine.

Cheers... jondee86
Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

Musink
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby Musink » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:12 pm

yeah it started at 2200RPM, then it warmed and it settled at 13-1500RPM.
adjusting the idle screw helped a bit but not a lot.
Yes its a AFM it is connected get fuel when opened. but when at WOT i think its a
fuel issue mainly, replaced the fuel filter but maybe the fuel pump screen. i think my tank has rust in it.
but i think it maybe my tps also. just not sure, maybe start with tps since its easily accessible.
1986 Sr5>Gtsr5(Soon) Hatch DD.....:D

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jondee86
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby jondee86 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:00 pm

OK... it seems like your AAV is working then, so you may as well
take the plug out. Even when the valve is working, there is still a
small amount of leakage when it closes (engine warmed up), but
it only lifts the idle about 100rpm.

You most likely have a vacuum leak somewhere. The last guy with
a similar problem discovered it was the nose insulators on the fuel
injectors. They shrink over time with heat and a bit of compression,
and let air leak in around the nose of the injectors. Might be worth
checking.

AFM flap has to open wide at WOT. You could try pushing the flap
open by hand when you open the throttle, and see if it makes any
difference.

Cheers... jondee86
Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

Musink
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby Musink » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:03 pm

"update"
Idle is at 1000-1500RPM (very rough), WOT still no response.
Holding the AFM flap does nothing except cause intake backfire.
Strong smell from the exhaust.
Distributor dimples lined up but seems off maybe???
Cleaned throttle body. capped both ac and ps idle connections only running water lines.
Help! this thing is complicated, so close yet far
1986 Sr5>Gtsr5(Soon) Hatch DD.....:D

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jondee86
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby jondee86 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:18 pm

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

Musink
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby Musink » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:57 am

Update.

So ive managed to replace my spark plugs (They were wet and burned)
Reset timing on crank, cam, & dizzy.
when placing the ecu in diagnostic mode i get a flash code 11???
tps seems to be adjusted iaw manual using multimeter.
now it starts right up then dies immediately after.
going to recheck all grounds and maybe add one somewhere to be safe.
any thoughts?
1986 Sr5>Gtsr5(Soon) Hatch DD.....:D

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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:32 am

Musink wrote:"update"
Idle is at 1000-1500RPM (very rough), WOT still no response.
Holding the AFM flap does nothing except cause intake backfire.
Strong smell from the exhaust.
Distributor dimples lined up but seems off maybe???
Cleaned throttle body. capped both ac and ps idle connections only running water lines.
Help! this thing is complicated, so close yet far


You ask for help but you don't say you did everything already suggested.
High idle means that air is getting in somewhere it shouldn't. Could be a vacuum leak, could be a bad brake booster or a few other things but it is air getting in somewhere. You have to find where.



Musink wrote:Update.

So ive managed to replace my spark plugs (They were wet and burned)
Reset timing on crank, cam, & dizzy.
when placing the ecu in diagnostic mode i get a flash code 11???
tps seems to be adjusted iaw manual using multimeter.
now it starts right up then dies immediately after.
going to recheck all grounds and maybe add one somewhere to be safe.
any thoughts?


Code 11 is almost always TPS spec or adjustment. What do you mean it seems to be adjusted?

Starting then dying is almost always an issue with the AFM/COR. You can try jumping the COR pin in the diagnostic port to see if it resolves this.
I have also heard of it potentially happening with bad ECU or engine grounds.

99% of this is covered in great detail in the FSM with a path of troubleshooting and diagnosis.

For the high idle you may find some helpful info here.
http://matrixgarage.com/articles/unders ... l-jetronic

Musink
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Re: Help. 16v Redtop Swap

Postby Musink » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:00 pm

thanks yoshi, your right i didnt say i did all of the steps.
but i did, no high idle anymore since it doesnt want to hold idle.
the newest update i have is the symptoms im having at the moment, all previous are null.
i will try the COR jumping and see if thats the problem.
also i will do research on manual and do the recommended solutions in troubleshooting.
1986 Sr5>Gtsr5(Soon) Hatch DD.....:D

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