Restoring AE86 w/ 4AGE 16v + HKS ITB + Haltech E6X

[jondee86]

Would the vacuum suck that in?

Nothing to worry about... the filter plate fits between the ITB and the
velocity stack, so it is on the atmospheric side of the throttle plate.
With sturdy velocity stacks there is really no need for any kind of
gasket or sealing as the plate will be firmly clamped.

If you are planning to use an inlet air temp sensor, now would be
a good time to make a mounting hole for it in the backplate. Same
thing if you wanted to pipe the cam cover vent into the backplate.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

I think I'll just strap the inlet air sensor somewhere for now since I don't have the right size drill bit or a tap. I'm also unsure if the cam cover vent would leak oil into the filter if it's not sucked in properly. Perhaps I should just get an oil catch can?

I've installed the baseplate and put on gasket maker to seal up the holes and temporarily bolted it up.


I also took apart the TPS and cleaned it with electrical contact cleaner. I'll install it after I get everything bolted back on again.

[jondee86]

Under normal circumstances on a healthy engine, there is not
enough blow-by to carry oil into the intake. However, it can become
a nuisance on a worn engine with a lot of blow-by. And high rpm's
combined with long sweeping left hand bends can pump oil out of
the cam cover breather.

The caring solution is a catch can that is vented back into the intake.
Other people just vent to atmosphere with a small filter and clean
the oil off the outside of the engine now and then

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Thanks for brainstorming this with me! I'll have to plan what I should do before I go drilling.

I'm currently taking care of some safety features such as turn signal cancel and the horn.

I bought a "BOSS Kit" off of ebay for ~$10. The quality is definitely not as good as the one I currently have. The outer part is hard rubber/plastic and only the center bolt on part was actually metal.


The turn signal cancel seated properly which is a definite plus.

However the +12V from the horn was not contacting the O contact ring.


I had to make an adapter with a butt connector and sanding down the contacting point.


It's super ghetto, but it works. (shrugs)


All that's left is to get a button for the steering wheel. Here's a video of it working by closing the loop directly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r3D-kTEjxE

Planning to put the speedo driven gear in at some point today hopefully and also need to put the new exhaust hangers on as well so the exhaust isn't hanging so low.

[aceforever]

Been pretty busy at work recently and ended up not being able to work on the car at all for a couple weeks. Things are finally starting to calm down more so I'm back at it again.

Ordered a steering wheel button on ebay and installed it. Had to make my own wires and connectors. One thing that was a bit tricky was that you have to make sure the positive wire was connected to the center of the button. Otherwise it likes to short on something. Probably the wheel or something around there.


Also sealed up the velocity stacks pretty well with gasket maker since I didn't have any gaskets for the velocity stacks. I'm planning to make some later on, but these will do for now.

Now I need to take the whole ITB + baseplate + velocity stacks off to put the filter on. It's pretty annoying as the ITBs and intake runners take up way more space than the 20v ITBs. I hope I don't have to do this often.

Still have that speedo gear to put in and top off the transmission oil since quite a bit leaked out last time. Does the car need to be level for me to top the transmission oil off correctly? Should I just go ahead and replace the oil altogether now?

[jondee86]

If it is that much work to fit the filter to the plate, I would be inclined to
leave the filter off until you are sure that you have finished working around
that side of the engine. Providing you don't live/drive in an area where there
is a lot of dust or sand blowing around, driving short distances without the
filter won't cause any harm.

EDIT: Removed a bit of stuff from here to the "Air Filters" thread.

And as you have been driving the car to get the oil inside the gearbox moving
around, you might as well drain all the oil and refill. Being level is not much
of an issue, so long as you don't have a BIG lean towards the fill plug side.
Just make sure you can get the fill plug out before you drain the oil and find
a way of getting the new oil up and into the filler. Some kind of pump or giant
sryinge with a bit of hose on the end would work.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Hey jondee86, it's great to hear from you again!

I was thinking that myself, but I spent all that time making the baseplate fit! That reminds me, the tuner did say that he needs to put some air measuring device of some sort on each of the intake last time I talked with him. Not entirely sure what he's means here but perhaps it's another way of calculating how much air is flowing into the engine? Does this mean I need to take the air filter off when I'm taking it to get the car tuned?

Thanks for the tips there. I'll go look for something to push the oil into the transmission. I did get off the top fill nut off last time, but I'll make sure to unbolt that first before attempting to drain it.

I heard that you could fill the transmission from the top if you take off the shifter, but knowing me I feel like I'd spill transmission oil everywhere inside the car. I probably will just do it from below the car.

[jondee86]

You can leave the baseplate on as it does help a little in preventing hot air
from around the engine reaching the throttles. The tuner probably wants to
check the airflow into each throttle to make sure they are balanced. It makes
a bit of difference at idle, but not much once the throttles are opened. Just
leave the filter element off until the tuner has finished his work.

I believe that there is a hole into the gearbox from where the shifter fits.
And you can get oil in thru there, but the hole is kind of small and you don't
want to be in a hurry or you will be spilling oil down the outside of the box.
Putting it in from the bottom is more difficult, but you will know when the
oil is up to the filler plug as it will be running down your arm

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Wow, that last picture makes me so sad. Poor engine. Is that a 20V 4AGE? The front cover looks different to me somehow.

Is there a way to mount the socks up higher on the stacks? It seems like a major flaw with sock installation if at some point the sock slips further down because the stacks aren't perfect cylinders but curved.

[aceforever]

Ah okay. I knew it looked different somehow.

Interesting that you mentioned screen door mesh. I was thinking of just getting mesh caps for the stacks, but thought it would probably be more worth while to invest in an actual filter.

Good to know about the spring part of the sock. I didn't think it would prop the sock out, but I guess the spring has to be just wide enough to not go into the intake.

Today, I finally found the courage to go into battle against the speedo/transmission oil. (I really don't like the smell of the stuff) I had a paper towel handy this time so not much trans oil was leaking out when I was taking out the speedo gear casing. The actual install wasn't bad at all. The kit Toyota sells works great. It included the gear holder pin and new o-ring.

Here is the unit all assembled and ready to be put back in and the old worn speedo gear. The old gear had 19 and 5 markings on it. New gear says the same. Interesting that the colour is different though.

[aceforever]

I don't mind at all. This is great information. You should definitely create a sticky or another thread on it just so it gets more audience.

I didn't know of the horrible open area of the screen meshes. It's almost as if you need a bigger mesh box to get enough opening area for the intake.

That last picture reminded me of something. The previous owner suggested I put foam in between the stack and ITBs. After thinking it over a bit more, I was worried that the foam would get sucked into the engine and started to think of more widely used solutions like the mesh caps and foam box filter.

---

I finished installing the speedometer driven gear casing today. Waiting for the syringe to be delivered before I can finish up the transmission oil change.

So to keep myself busy, I found other odd jobs to do.

Hung the exhaust properly with new rubber hangers. Previously it was hung via some light gauge steel wire. Not pictured is another hanging point that I also added new rubber hangers.


Painting the new hood prop clip as I didn't like the colour. Also in the process of derusting and painting the hood prop.

[YoShImUrA]

Great stuff on the meshes for the itbs, Jondee.

Keep up the good work, Aceforever!


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[Deuce Cam]

For future reference you can always pour the oil into the opening on the tail shaft housing after removing the shifter assembly. Remove the fill plug and pour in slowly until fluid starts coming out of the fill opening on the side.

[aceforever]

For future reference you can always pour the oil into the opening on the tail shaft housing after removing the shifter assembly. Remove the fill plug and pour in slowly until fluid starts coming out of the fill opening on the side.

Thanks for helping out! I actually knew about this method and I was debating about doing it that way. I don't have much luck pouring things without spilling things everywhere and I really don't like how transmission oil smells. So I ended up doing the pump from below method instead. It wasn't so bad. 12-13 pumps total out of a 100mL syringe. I was pumping probably around 110mL each time so I probably filled around 1.4L and there were 300mL old oil in there still.

[aceforever]

You sure know your filters jondee I wish I could some how make a plenum for an OEM filter as it would have been easier to swap filters. All and all, I'm pretty satisfied with my solution so far.

I finished with the hood prop grommet and clip and paint. That was on my backlog for a long time and I'm glad I finished that.

I also finished changing the transmission oil. I think there was about 300mL of old oil still left in the transmission as I filled about 1.4L of oil into there before it started to leak out the fill hole. I noticed a glob of stuff near the drain bolt. Upon closer inspection I see that the drain bolt actually has a magnet inside it. I cleaned off the glob of stuff and screwed it back on after everything drains. Is that factory standard? Seems like a neat feature.

While I was underneath the car I noticed that the gap between the distributor and distributor cap was leaking a tiny bit of oil. I don't have an O-ring for the distributor cap. Is this problematic? If it's normal for oil to be inside the distributor housing, I don't think I need to worry about it.

[jondee86]

You sure know your filters jondee

I spent a few years selling air filters, so I learned a bit about them.

I wish I could some how make a plenum for an OEM filter...

When you have finished everything else on the car you can come back
and revisit the filter setup. I had a similar dilemma and in the end settled
for the sausage filter as it was a workable compromise. Eventually I hope
to replace it with something quieter.

I see that the drain bolt actually has a magnet inside it.

It is a standard feature on many engines, only I don't remember seeing one
on a 4AGE. Could be aftermarket, but a good idea anyway.

The distributor cap was leaking a tiny bit of oil.

There is an oil seal on the distributor shaft and when it gets worn it will
allow oil to leak into the inside of the distributor. Apart from being messy
I don't know that it actually does any harm. There are a couple of DIY's in
the AE86 FAQ showing what is needed to replace the seal.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

I spent a few years selling air filters, so I learned a bit about them.

No wonder you know so much!

I agree with taking a look at the plenum idea when I'm mostly complete.

The drain bolt was from the T50 transmission rather than the engine. If this isn't the OEM bolt I guess it's because the transmission was a rebuilt with closer gear ratios from a racing car in Japan. The HKS ITBs were from the same car as well. Apparently there was a very neat "octopus-like" exhaust header but it wouldn't fit the LHD steering components in US so the previous owner got rid of it. Neat parts.

I do recall looking at some of those DIY articles. Looking over them again it seems like you need some special tools and a repair kit. As you confirmed that it's not detrimental other than loosing droplets of oil. I'll just keep an eye out for low engine oil and top off if necessary for now. It's good to know that it's not terrible to have. I thought it may have been my engine oil filter or the engine oil cooler lines leaking when I saw droplets on the floor around that area.

[jondee86]

My bad... I was thinking engine instead of gearbox

Aftermarket magnetic plugs are available for both engine and gearbox,
but I don't recall seeing them in the factory plugs on my car. So I would guess
that yours is aftermarket. You seem to have lucked in with some nice gear
fitted to your car... the close ratio gears are an expensive item these days.
So I would think you probably also have a lower ratio (4.8:1 or similar) fitted
to the rear end.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Oh I see! And I didn't even think of checking the engine plug when I changed the engine oil. If it's not magnetic it seems like a good item to get.

The itb and close ratio gearpack definitely was what attracted me to this particular car. I took a huge gamble on the working state of the car and so far, lucked out. Wasn't so lucky on the ignitors though haha!

The rear end is just a standard OEM USDM GT-S rear end with a worn out LSD unfortunately.

Just out of curiosity, what does the lower ratio in the rear end do? Looking at some older club4ag posts, seems like GT-S final gear is 4.3:1 while SR-5 is 4.1:1. I'm guessing having a 4.8:1 ratio final gear would mean more torque and lower high speeds?

I also can't really confirm that these are indeed close ratio gears as I don't know how you would know other than comparing it with another AE86. Around these parts, they're pretty hard to come across.

EDIT:

I guess I can compare with the original transmission:

[YoShImUrA]

Well, about that, you might notice the jump from 3rd to 4th is excessively tall; and just as silly is how short the jump from 4th to fifth is. Not a fan of the ridiculously short first, either...

Personally I am going to change my ratios to a Cusco Type C ratios (taller 1st-3rd), as well as adding MFactory's taller fifth, if customs ever decide to give it back (you don't wanna know how messed up it's in Europe to ship things in nowadays...). Then it might start acting like a properly even spacing for normal use on the freeway (3500 RPM at 75 MPH), as well as having a very well sorted 1-4th up to 120MPh, without even changing the final ratio.

I might consider a really short ratio (5.1?) if I ever get another third member that I can swap whenever I feel like it.


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[jondee86]

There were two TRD "close ratio" gear sets. One replaced all gears
except 4th and the other replaced only 1st and 2nd gears. Both are
now discontinued, although Gear Set B does sometimes show up for
sale on the auction sites.

Original 4AGE with T-50Transmission Specifications:
Gear Ratios:
1st: 3.587
2nd: 2.022
3rd: 1.384
4th: 1.000
5th: 0.861

TRD Gear Set A - Ratios:
1st: 2.341
2nd: 1.607
3rd: 1.195
5th: 0.886

TRD Gear Set B - Ratios:
1st: 2.630
2nd: 1.891
3rd: 1.384
5th: 0.861

As you can see the 1st gear ratio changes quite a bit, and this makes
ist gear a bit tall for many applications (rally for example). And since
rally and short course racing usually do not require particularly high
top speeds, a low ratio crown wheel and pinion will be fitted. This has
the effect of closing up the gears, increasing acceleration and better
matching the gearing to the needs of the driver.

As mentioned above, there are other manufacturers offering gearsets
for the T-50 box, so anything is possible given the desire and sufficiently
deep pockets

Cheers... jondee86

[YoShImUrA]

The TRD sets were/are known as TRD5 (the one that changes all but 4th) and TRD3 (1st, 2nd and 3rd).

TRD5 was clearly made for the racetrack. First is super tall (55MPH in a 4.3) and the rest get progressively closer until 4th to 5th is even shorter than stock! (I wouldn't fit the shorter 5th).

Besides the "clutch killer" 1st, the jump from 3rd to 4th so short, it'd only makes sense if you got very poor torque to increase speed easier/faster at higher gears.

Tsuchiya used to run this set when his car was prepped by TRD/Sakurai-san, coupled with a 5.375 ring and pinion, which made the car super quick to accelerate once you got going (don't forget that tall 1st).

TRD3 seems to be more aimed at rallying, and is just a tad taller 1-3, but pretty similar to OEM in "spirit". The gap from 3rd to 4th is long enough that now, Tsuchiya uses this on his Tec-Arts tuned car (with a 4.77), and they have fitted a "3.5" (a ratio shorter than fourth, but it goes where the 5th used to be), in order to make a proper spacing and shorter, closer ratios. Not a fan of this "cheap" solution that many Japanese use in their racing 86. It makes me confused where the gear is going to go, and makes me too aware of over revving the engine in a miscalculated downshift.

Then, as Jondee said, there are tons of other brands, but I'm not that sure the proper R&D has gone into them. Or at least, buying it from a reputable brand like Cusco, gives me more peace of mind.

Cusco offered a type A which was only a 3.5 gear. I never found a reference for the type B, but type C basically makes the spacing between 1st through 4th very even, which allows for a very good all-round solution. Type D is also available, but is a bit more extreme version of the TRD5 set. Yes, 1st is even taller(!!).

Here's a video I put together when I was comparing my favorite options: the TRD5 with a 4.77, to make taking off from traffic lights less hard) and the Cusco Type C (stock 4.3).

It was the Cusco I was sold on, since I wanted to keep the 4.3 for now and, using the car on the street, I didn't want to replace clutches every other week with that tall 1st... Let alone taking off at a "normal" pace from the traffic lights, not waiting for the engine to reach higher revs in order to make any sort of pace.

https://youtu.be/2we5ejX427g


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[jondee86]

The subject of the T-50 and its supposed shortcomings in terms of
crush tube, power handling and ratios, has been discussed in many
forums over the years. And as far as I can see, when used as it was
intended by Toyota, there is not a lot wrong with the gearbox.

The AE86 was designed and sold as the sporting version of the long
standing Corolla "econobox" range. I suspect Toyota would have been
surprised at the cult status the car has achieved, and the success it
has had in various forms or motorsport. In the years before drifting
became a sport, and the cars remained N.A. in competition, the
T-50 handled motorsport duties without ever gaining a reputation
for being "weak". That only came about when it became fashionable to
abuse the box and subject it to three or more times its design power.

Common sense dictates that a car leaving the factory with 120hp
under the hood will have a mechanicals rated to handle 120hp. Just
as a 300hp car will have a stronger gearbox and diff. Swapping W-Series
boxes and Supra diffs (or similar stronger combinations) is the proven
power handling upgrade for AE86's.

Personally, I find the T-50 and 4.3 satisfactory for my non-competition
driving. Certainly a close ratio 6-speed conversion ala Oldeskewltoy
would be nice, but difficult to justify that kind of expense for the
amount of use my car gets. I am happy to leave the ratio changes to
others who race their cars, and need the benefits of a close-ratio box.

Cheers... jondee86

[YoShImUrA]

No argument with the durability of the T50. Been using it hard for the past 3 years on tracks and canyons all over the world, and my only gripe has to be the spacing I mentioned above. Then again, I was using a mostly stock engine. Let's see how much I can say the same after going through 50% more hp from a blacktop...


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[aceforever]

I've reseated the distributor to 60 BTDC.

Got one of my car buddies to drive as I tuned the fuel maps.
It's now pretty drivable 0-100% throttle and 1000-5000rpm. And look! The speedometer is working!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SMpQqSUI3U

It could be better though. Digging through the data log I noticed the MAP sensor signal plateauing at -7 to -3 kPa after 30% TPS like jondee86 mentioned. Seems like the MAP sensor on the E6X is -4kPa at atmospheric. Isn't that wrong? I thought atmospheric is ~101kPa. The units doesn't matter as I'm plateauing and not getting much signal after 30% TPS.


The TPS seems a litte better, but I still see the slight dip in TPS signal when adding more throttle.

See how the red TPS line dips a little everytime there's a change?

I think I should just order up a new TPS or maybe find one off of a junk yard if they're interchangable? And switch over to TPS load type instead of MAP. A tuner on the HKS forums recommended just ordering a new TPS.

[aceforever]

Here is the fuel map so far.

There's a steep drop below -4 kPa because of the MAP signal plateauing.

[jondee86]

It looks like you have the load axes setup to suit a 2.5bar MAP sensor
and 10500rpm. The standard AE86 MAP sensor is 1bar, so if you are using
the standard sensor you can go to the Main Setup page and change the
value. If you also change the RPM Limit to 8500rpm, it will give you a bit
more definition and make the map easier to comprehend

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Here are my settings currently:



The RPM Limit doesn't affect the rpm axis. I think only the RPM Mode does and it's already at the lowest I can make it.

The Load Type is set to MAP INT(ERNAL) 2.5 BAR because I'm using the MAP sensor within the Haltech ECU. I think the other settings are for external MAP sensors. I only have a MAF or is it AFM? sensor with a pressure plate used in USDM intake in the junk bin. I don't have a OEM JDM MAP sensor.

Either way, I think I need to switch to TPS because of the plateauing. Is that right? (check the post before the fuel map on the previous page for the data log)

[jondee86]

My bad... I didn't realise you were using the internal MAP sensor. Looks
like you are stuck with just using that corner of the fuel map. And no, there
should not be any dip in the TPS reading if there is no corresponding lifting
of the gas pedal. If you can't see anything unusual happening with the throttle
linkage, then trying another TPS would be the way to go. I think you should
be able to grab one off any 16V TVIS engine, just make sure the plug matches.

Here is a graph of the throttle being progressively opened on my engine. You
can see that by 41% TPS the MAP reading has topped out at 96kPa (right click
and View Image for legend). So if using MAP for load input there would be no
increase in the load signal after this point. Extra fuel would just be added as
per rpm on the WOT line of the fuel map.



You are correct in that atmospheric pressure is usually taken as 101kPa (or
100kPa for simplicity). There should be some procedure for calibrating the MAP
sensor, but a few kPa either way is not really a biggie when you are at WOT. My
TPS map recognises anything above 96% as being wide open. An error of 1 or 2%
is not critical, and it gets around the hassle of having to keep checking the
calibration.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Seems like my MAP sensor reading is just shifted by 50kPa down. I get -4kPa at engine off and -60 kPa for engine idle.

I've tried the both the two TPS that came with the car. Both are dipping down when throttle position is pressed in more at various %. I don't think it's the linkages but it might be? Is it really that likely that two TPS would both exhibit the same issue? Is it a common issue that TPSes dip when they're old? Or do you think it actually is the linkages?

To find a replacement TPS do I need a 4AGE TPS or are there any other engines with the same TPS?

My TPS part numbers are:

89452-20050
89452-28010


Your graph is much better than the Haltech graph:

I get atmospheric around 30-35% TPS as well.