Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

ethergore2
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Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:53 pm

I'm sad we lost all our data including my build log. Even though keeping the log inspires me to keep going, I don't have the patience to do my log all over. So, what I'm going to do is list everything on my car, post all the pictures I still have and start from when the site crashed.

Edit**********
I found my old build log on an archived site if you want to check it out. http://web.archive.org/web/201211150658 ... ?id=104620

Here are my current specs:
Mods/Features

Exterior
-Kouki Levin front and rear bumper
-Kouki Levin front lip
-Levin mud flaps

Interior
-Complete interior
-APEX seats
-Pioneer stereo
-Kicker speakers

Engine control
-AEM EMS 4
-AEM long flying lead
-AEM Pencil Coils
-AEM Uego wideband controller
-All AEM sensors
-RC rebuilt 225 cc injectors
-Fuel lines converted to AN
-Odyssey 925 battery relocated to trunk with 0-Gauge wire

Motor:
-Rebuilt hi-comp
-Milled block and head
-HKS adjustable pulleys
-Crower 280 deg cams
-Crower valve springs
-HKS timing belt
-NST light weight pulleys
-Bronze valve guides
-3 angle valve job
-Balanced crank to one gram
-TRD head gasket
-TRD motor mounts
-Koyo timing pulley

Cooling
-Koyo Radiator
-Electric fan
-High flow oil cooler with with fire protected ss lines
-Mocal sandwich plate
-Samco heater hoses
-Samco constant torque clamps

Intake/exhaust
-T3 ITB adapter
-Silvertop ITBs
-T3 70mm velocity stacks
-SamQ adapter plate and ITG filter
-Golden Eagle vacuum manifold
-Red silicone vacuum line
-YSPL headers
-2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, no cat

Drive train:
-ACT stage 3 clutch
-Fidanza light weight flywheel
-1-piece light weight driveshaft
-Kaaz LSD
-Weir 4.778 R&P
-Rebuilt tranny
-T3 shifter rebuild kit
-NST bronze bushing
-SS Teflon coated clutch line

Suspension/handling:
-Megan coil overs
-Pass outer tie rod ends
-T3 NRCAs
-New inner tie rod
-New ball joints
-T3 manual rack bushing
-Rebuilt manual rack with PS knuckles
-Battleversion 50/50 4-links
-T3 traction brackets
-Cusco lateral rod
-Prothane bushings
-Personal steering wheel
-NRG quick release
-Boss hub
-Tom's wheels

Brakes:
-88 rotors cross-drilled, slotted rotors
-Goodridge steel braided lines
-Porterfield pads

Pictures to follow.
Last edited by ethergore2 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:54 am

Bought the car looking like this:
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Motor rebuild:
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Ripping everything out for ITBs and AEM:
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ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:03 am

Parts for ITBs and stand alone:
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Had to get the water neck reworked to accept American threads:
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Installed crower 280 cams and valve springs:
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Got the valve covers painted too:
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runkillerrabbit
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby runkillerrabbit » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:38 pm

awesome!!! another ems-4 user!
i have blacktop going ems-4
almost exact setup
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ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:10 am

Awesome! Do you have a build thread? I have questions. Did you have many difficulties? Let me know.

ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:04 pm

Old ugly filter setup:
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My fancy YSPL headers from K1:
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Beautiful welds:
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Good clearance but they still just barely rattle against the side of the bay when the idle is low:
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I used this part from Bonaco to get an -AN fitting on the end of my fuel lines. IMO there is no need to run steel braided hose all the way from the tank:
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Also fitted a pressure gauge with a female threaded banjo bolt:
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ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:17 pm

Parts for my battery relocation-

0 gauge from Knukonceptz.com:
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This stuff really is as flexible as they claim:
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150 Amp fuse breaker mounted in trunk:
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Battery tray before and after powdercoat:
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BMW distribution block:
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Fits perfectly where the coil used to go:
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Crimping wire:
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Finished product:
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Notice I also replaced the fusible links with maxi fuses:
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ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:23 pm

I got a hold of some of the coveted Samco heater hoses:
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Another cool piece I got is a Saiko Michi breather tank/catch can:
Image

ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:34 pm

This post is just a bunch of wiring pictures. For some this is great stuff but I'm sure it's really boring for most. I had to put it up because it was a lot of work:

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Grant doing his magic:
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The harness starting to take shape:
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Had to rewire the CAS to produce a rising edge signal instead of falling edge:
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All finished:
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ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:43 pm

I got the ITG adapter plate from SamQ to get some filtration going on:
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An artsy shot:
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Here's a shot with the intake filter on and showing the current state of my engine bay. If you look close you can see that my fuel line is ghetto as heck. My Tomei FPR busted and I had to rig it up:
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Here is a close up of the fuel line ghettoness:
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ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:48 pm

Had to get a custom exhaust since no one sells 2.5" to match the YSPL header. I got it mandrel bent with a resonator and exhaust; no cat:
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Looks like they got cheap on me and welded together scraps. I'm going to have to go back and complain:
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ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:50 pm

So now the car is ready for some final tuning. I brought it to Grant this last weekend and now all I can do is wait. The sad parts is I did this when I loaded my car onto the trailer in the rain and at night:
Image

I have to admit I cried a little :-(

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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby runkillerrabbit » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:42 pm

ethergore2 wrote:Awesome! Do you have a build thread? I have questions. Did you have many difficulties? Let me know.



yea let me know

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1374

im at the final stage of getting it rewired and tuned at fsr.

i got it running with the dizzy relocater.. but when i switched over to coil over packs i couldnt get it started. i had alittle bit of grants help but with no luck.

so i gave up haha

i had one question.. i know 4ages have low impedance injectors... did you get the injector driver? or did you get high resistant injectors?
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby runkillerrabbit » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:44 pm

and dont worry about the scar.. i dropped my engine stand on to the side rear fender and dinged up my new paint job.... i just consider it a love mark while you were giving it love ;)
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ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:04 pm

Sorry. I found your build thread after I asked. Ill look forward to updates.

I got high impedance injectors. 225 cc reworked at RC engineering for good measure.

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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby Jeonsah » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:52 am

Great build so far. I have a question for you because I am going to have a similar build.

1. Since your running a completely rebuilt engine with a new EMS system, how are you going to break in the engine while getting it to run?

I have been thinking about this and I dont know how tuning a fresh unbroken in engine would work when using a brand new ems from the first start up...

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby oldeskewltoy » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:07 am

ethergore2 wrote:
Engine control
-AEM EMS 4
-AEM long flying lead
-AEM Pencil Coils
-AEM Uego wideband controller
-All AEM sensors
-RC rebuilt 225 cc injectors

Motor:
-Rebuilt hi-comp
-Milled block and head
-HKS adjustable pulleys
-Crower 280 deg cams
-Crower valve springs
-HKS timing belt
-NST light weight pulleys
-Bronze valve guides
-3 angle valve job
-Balanced crank to one gram
-TRD head gasket
-TRD motor mounts
-Koyo timing pulley

Intake/exhaust
-T3 ITB adapter
-Silvertop ITBs
-T3 70mm velocity stacks
-SamQ adapter plate and ITG filter
-Golden Eagle vacuum manifold
-Red silicone vacuum line
-YSPL headers
-2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, no cat



just waiting to see the dyno....... :mrgreen:

Btw once you have the dyno I would appreciate its addition here - viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1335
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:42 pm

Jeonsah wrote:Great build so far. I have a question for you because I am going to have a similar build.

1. Since your running a completely rebuilt engine with a new EMS system, how are you going to break in the engine while getting it to run?

I have been thinking about this and I dont know how tuning a fresh unbroken in engine would work when using a brand new ems from the first start up...


I broke in the motor on the stock setup before I tore everything down and before I installed the cams. I was a little worried about breaking in the cams but its really not that bad. The ecu will just be rough at first but it will be fine for breaking everything in. The way you do the initial startup then shut it off, mess with things then start it again etc kind of works out for breaking in the motor. By the time your ready to do dyno pulls the motor will be ready.

ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:43 pm

OST- I'm anxiously waiting to see the dyno numbers too. I cant wait to see what this motor can do. Hopefully ill be well above 130 hp but I dont want to get my hopes up. Ill post it as soon as I get it.

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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby vovinamer » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:01 am

Been following this build on the old forums. And was one of my favorites.. Stockish 16valve twincam with itb's is what my ideal 86 setup would be once I'm back in the 86 game... What are your opinions on the aem ems route? And if you we're to try and do the itb 16valve 4ag over again, would you do it the same or differently?? Keep up the good work and looking forward to seeing a perfectly running setup!

ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:46 pm

So far the AEM route has been ok but there are a few things that were annoying. The first is that the AEM only sees a falling edge trigger signal but the GZE CAS only puts out a rising edge signal (or maybe I have that backwards). To compensate you have to rewire the GZE CAS and there are no instructions anywhere about how to do this. The other problem I had was getting the computer to connect with the AEM which is still somewhat of a problem. It seems the AEM only likes certain computers for a reason I have not figured out. Another annoyance is that when connected to the computer, the AEM will not turn off one of my injectors when the car dies. This is bad for obvious reasons. Yet another annoyance is that the software has issues if you don't password protect you map.

Like I said however, these are mostly just annoyances. The good things about the EMS 4 are that it can support sequential fuel and ign, as well as, up to 8 accessories, it can work with stock sensors, it has a seemingly fast processor, good map resolution, US support with willing but not always helpful tech support, and is only around $700.

Knowing what I know now I would do the same setup if I wanted an ITB'd 16 v but if I started a new corolla I honestly think I would run an f series Honda motor and would have saved a lot of money. Although I would have lost a lot of coolness points.

Keep in mind that my car is not finished. I'm sure ill be even happier once my car hits the track.

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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby runkillerrabbit » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:37 pm

i also had in issue with the trigger signal. i couldnt offically figure it out. thats where i got stuck on my build.

mines currently at the tuners right now.

ill ask them how they wired up the CAS

also

im gunna be spending few bucks getting a dyno tune from FSR want that tune mapping for a small donation?
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ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:05 am

runkillerrabbit wrote:i also had in issue with the trigger signal. i couldnt offically figure it out. thats where i got stuck on my build.

mines currently at the tuners right now.

ill ask them how they wired up the CAS

also

im gunna be spending few bucks getting a dyno tune from FSR want that tune mapping for a small donation?


Let me know what they did for it. I don't need any mapping, I already have a rough tune and a running car. Really Grant just has to figure out a bug and then the car is ready for the Dyno.

Thanks tho.

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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby runkillerrabbit » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:56 am

will do! ill let you know! im gunna stop by the shop today
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vovinamer
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby vovinamer » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:42 am

ethergore2 wrote:Knowing what I know now I would do the same setup if I wanted an ITB'd 16 v but if I started a new corolla I honestly think I would run an f series Honda motor and would have saved a lot of money. Although I would have lost a lot of coolness points.


I hear ya completely on the loss of coolness factor... I used to be a huge advocate of Honda f20 swaps into the ae86 as the performance per dollar figure would trump the 4ag any day, but me being older and more wise after having a few ae86s and other high performance vehicles (s2000, Evo 9 se, b8 S4).. And looking into an aircooled 911 and of course another ae86 resto... I realized the 4ag is part of the reason for the 86's spirit and value.. And an f20 swap would devalue the appeal of the 86.. IMO...

ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:42 pm

vovinamer wrote:
ethergore2 wrote:Knowing what I know now I would do the same setup if I wanted an ITB'd 16 v but if I started a new corolla I honestly think I would run an f series Honda motor and would have saved a lot of money. Although I would have lost a lot of coolness points.


I hear ya completely on the loss of coolness factor... I used to be a huge advocate of Honda f20 swaps into the ae86 as the performance per dollar figure would trump the 4ag any day, but me being older and more wise after having a few ae86s and other high performance vehicles (s2000, Evo 9 se, b8 S4).. And looking into an aircooled 911 and of course another ae86 resto... I realized the 4ag is part of the reason for the 86's spirit and value.. And an f20 swap would devalue the appeal of the 86.. IMO...



I guess for me the coolness factor didn't really do it because I'm just not that nostalgic. I love the AE86 platform but I wouldn't be afraid to swap in whatever I needed to in order to reach my goal. With that said, my goal is to create a super rev happy, simple to maintain and understand, street legal go-kart with amazing throttle response run on sequential fuel and ignition control (no waste here lol). I believe the setup I have was the cheapest and best way to get there.

Thinking back I considered a black top swap but with those you never know how many miles are on the motor once you find one. I figure my setup is basically like a new car. I have rebuilt the entire drive train while simplifying everything electronically. Some may think a EMS is not simple however I think once installed they are much more simple to understand. It's just basically air and fuel with few other variables.

ethergore2
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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:30 pm

I miss my car. :(

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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby ethergore2 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:23 pm

So I got a small update on the status of my car. It turns out AEM sold me the wrong coil driver for my car to run their pencil coils. So now I purchased some Toyota coils. I like how these will look better anyways since I can now get the Sam Q plate. I am sad that I wasted money though. Hopefully I can sell the pencil coils and get AEM to refund my coil driver since it was their fault. I doubt it though.

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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby RidgeRacer » Thu May 23, 2013 10:58 am

ethergore2 wrote:So I got a small update on the status of my car. It turns out AEM sold me the wrong coil driver for my car to run their pencil coils. So now I purchased some Toyota coils. I like how these will look better anyways since I can now get the Sam Q plate. I am sad that I wasted money though. Hopefully I can sell the pencil coils and get AEM to refund my coil driver since it was their fault. I doubt it though.


I was emailing back and forth with the guys at FSR following the progress of your build before I knew you were a member and posting about it here. What Toyota coils did you go with and do they have built-in ignitors? I was thinking about going with S2000/RSX COPs since those have built-in ignitors for a much cleaner look.

Sam Q plate?
'85 Anthracite GT-S

WTB AE86 parts: Grey passenger side speaker housing and grille.

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Re: Hi comp with ITBs on AEM EMS 4

Postby Garage7RP » Thu May 23, 2013 11:48 am

With all the annoyance and unavailable tech support you mentioned, why did you choose AEM EMS 4 instead of haltech, TeC, SDS, or MegaSquirt? With the pricing you mentioned ($700) plus wiring and sensors, you can get any of the other ECUs.

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