street/track build

jersey_87coupe
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street/track build

Postby jersey_87coupe » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:44 pm

just a build thread of what hopefully becomes a weekend warrior and a daily beast.
Car: 1987 sr5 coupe paid 400$
the kid used it for delivering pizzas

i bought a big port 4age 16v for 500$ at first the object was to rebuild the engine and slap it in. Then i found a 5 speed t50 :D
after months of getting parts to rebuild it i dont know what hit me and decided to add a little go fast parts.... and now its turned into a lot more work and money i initially intended to.
After buying a 4agze block Ive decided to go as far as i can, while keeping "street legal" while keeping the 4age heart.

I work at a foreign&domestic shop here in new jersey, performance wise, i never had proper training. what i know is from research and my boss who worked for ford motorsports for 25+ years. so I'm learning as i go.

so here we go for pictures

guy ran into a light post bent the left corner a bit not much
Image
Image
T50 with new gaskets and seals
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the engine was missing a few things but nothing i coulndt find :D
then i got a little fancy lol
Image

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jersey_87coupe
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street/track build

Postby jersey_87coupe » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:53 pm

Image
4agze block, balance crank, bored, decked and nitrate treated.

Now i am trying to focus on what i wanna do as far as internals go.
I came to the conclusion that it would be easier and more cost efficient to go turbo rather than my original N/A plan.
what im looking at right now is 9:1 compression but i have still to figure what cams to run and upgrading the valve train.

so once i figure that out ill be posting more of what i pick up and do :D
anyone with ideas or suggestions to what cams to use let me know!

yoshimitsuspeed
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Re: street/track build

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:53 pm

What are your power goals?
What are you doing for engine management?

Personally I am a huge fan of high compression and low to moderate boost. I am currently running a Blacktop at stock 11:1 compression and about 7 PSI boost. It is amazingly quick, responsive and fun.
I would only recommend 9:1 for well over 300 hp. Personally even for 300 HP I'd still shoot higher than that because I would rather have the high BSFC and see how much I could get out of it.
Like I said though it really depends on your goals.

As for cams. If you are looking for less than 250 WHP or so the stock cams will be a good starting point and keep your low end power and spool.
If you want to open up the top end a bit the Kelford turbo cam would be a great choice.
http://www.matrixgarage.com/?q=products ... agte-4agze

Another option that is a little cheaper is the Tomei Poncam.
This cam was more designed to be an NA drop in cam but if you look at it's specs they are very similar to that of the Kelford cam. Since it's designed as more of an NA cam it may benefit more from cam gears than the Kelford but that will also depend on the turbo you choose and how restrictive it is.
http://www.matrixgarage.com/?q=products ... 64-81mm-ex


I also design pistons and can tailor them specifically to your build. I can then get them made by Wiseco, CP or JE.
This is an 11:1 piston I designed for an NA build to be non interference on the poncams.
Image

Here is another I am currently working on for a high comp E85 NA build that will be around 14:1
Image

I make a production manifold for the AW11 and plan to make one for the FR cars like AE86 soon but I can make you anything you want upon special request.
http://www.matrixgarage.com/?q=store/tu ... boing-4age

If you tell me what your goals and budget are I can make more suggestions.
I can also get you anything you would need for your rebuild.

jersey_87coupe
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Re: street/track build

Postby jersey_87coupe » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:55 pm

im looking for a bit over 300hp.
so far ive been able to come up with a haltech sprint 500 with loom, so i can go a bit further in cams now and fuel.

as far as turbos, i haven't figured out much. im think a t3/t4 garrett or turbonetics with 50 trim should be able to push the 300s. at that point what cams should i look in to?
i was thinking 272 duration with anywhere from .380-.400 lift. but looking at those specs for cams im not sure if the stock valve train would hold up.

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jersey_87coupe
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Re: street/track build

Postby jersey_87coupe » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:05 pm

more goodies!!
Image

looking at the old 16v block i planned on using the oil pump but got lazy
Image

jersey_87coupe
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Re: street/track build

Postby jersey_87coupe » Wed May 07, 2014 5:01 pm

Image
parts starting to pill up :D

anyone know up to how much lift/duration stock buckets/valves/springs will hold?

Baoser
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Re: street/track build

Postby Baoser » Fri May 16, 2014 2:13 pm

Nice start!

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: street/track build

Postby oldeskewltoy » Fri May 16, 2014 3:19 pm

jersey_87coupe wrote:looking at the old 16v block i planned on using the oil pump but got SMART
Image


fixed that for ya...... :ugeek:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

jersey_87coupe
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Re: street/track build

Postby jersey_87coupe » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:40 pm

yoshimitsuspeed wrote:What are your power goals?

Personally I am a huge fan of high compression and low to moderate boost. I am currently running a Blacktop at stock 11:1 compression and about 7 PSI boost. It is amazingly quick, responsive and fun.
I would only recommend 9:1 for well over 300 hp. Personally even for 300 HP I'd still shoot higher than that because I would rather have the high BSFC and see how much I could get out of it.
Like I said though it really depends on your goals.


I can also get you anything you would need for your rebuild.




ive run into a bit of a stump, ive got a block bored to 82mm.
im looking for close to 300hp and im at the point where i need to choose pistons and cams before moving any further.
82mm pistons 9:1 cams?
82mm pistons 12:1 cams?
any advice would help

yoshimitsuspeed
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Re: street/track build

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:49 pm

Personally I would go with the Kelford 193T.
http://www.matrixgarage.com/products/ke ... agte-4agze

There are many piston options out there including custom, why are you only talking about two options?

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: street/track build

Postby oldeskewltoy » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:49 pm

jersey_87coupe wrote:
yoshimitsuspeed wrote:What are your power goals?

Personally I am a huge fan of high compression and low to moderate boost. I am currently running a Blacktop at stock 11:1 compression and about 7 PSI boost. It is amazingly quick, responsive and fun.
I would only recommend 9:1 for well over 300 hp. Personally even for 300 HP I'd still shoot higher than that because I would rather have the high BSFC and see how much I could get out of it.
Like I said though it really depends on your goals.


I can also get you anything you would need for your rebuild.




ive run into a bit of a stump, ive got a block bored to 82mm.
im looking for close to 300hp and im at the point where i need to choose pistons and cams before moving any further.
82mm pistons 9:1 cams?
82mm pistons 12:1 cams?
any advice would help


Typically you don't bore the block till you have the new pistons in hand... that way each cylinder can be bored specifically for each piston. At 82mm you are almost at the end of usable cylinder walls... especially when you add boost into the equation. Id be shooting for about 10 to one static compression. Ted's/Kamikaze Kams has a few short duration(under 270) BIG lift (over 10mm) cams if thats your thing...
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

jersey_87coupe
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:38 pm

Re: street/track build

Postby jersey_87coupe » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:37 am

oldeskewltoy wrote:
jersey_87coupe wrote:
yoshimitsuspeed wrote:What are your power goals?

Personally I am a huge fan of high compression and low to moderate boost. I am currently running a Blacktop at stock 11:1 compression and about 7 PSI boost. It is amazingly quick, responsive and fun.
I would only recommend 9:1 for well over 300 hp. Personally even for 300 HP I'd still shoot higher than that because I would rather have the high BSFC and see how much I could get out of it.
Like I said though it really depends on your goals.


I can also get you anything you would need for your rebuild.




ive run into a bit of a stump, ive got a block bored to 82mm.
im looking for close to 300hp and im at the point where i need to choose pistons and cams before moving any further.
82mm pistons 9:1 cams?
82mm pistons 12:1 cams?
any advice would help


Typically you don't bore the block till you have the new pistons in hand... that way each cylinder can be bored specifically for each piston. At 82mm you are almost at the end of usable cylinder walls... especially when you add boost into the equation. Id be shooting for about 10 to one static compression. Ted's/Kamikaze Kams has a few short duration(under 270) BIG lift (over 10mm) cams if thats your thing...


i have a stock block too, i bought a bunch of parts of a guy from NY and in the bunch he threw in the block and 20v pistons i figured since it was machined and treated i might as well use it.

jersey_87coupe
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Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:38 pm

Re: street/track build

Postby jersey_87coupe » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:40 am

yoshimitsuspeed wrote:Personally I would go with the Kelford 193T.
http://www.matrixgarage.com/products/ke ... agte-4agze

There are many piston options out there including custom, why are you only talking about two options?


i know there's more options. i just mentioned a low comp and high comp that are available of the shelf just to see which is better on a turbo 16v high or low comp.

yoshimitsuspeed
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Re: street/track build

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:57 am

I am a huge fan of high comp low boost builds. It really depends on your goals and your approach though.
With stock cams and pump gas you would probably be lucky to run a couple PSI at 12:1 with a really good tune.

With some 264ish cams you could run a bit more. I'd guess in the 8 PSI range. Maybe a bit more with a great tune. Throw in race gas, E85 or meth injection and this gets you some more headroom.
You wouldn't be breaking any power records with this setup but it would be incredibly well balanced. Great off boost power, good gas mileage, and quick response. Not only will the compression help with spool but you can keep the turbo on the smaller side since you can make more power per PSI and volume. In many track type situations you would be able to take on similar motors running less compression, more boost and bigger turbos and making more peak power.

Then there's always the extreme build. Throw in some massive cams, build the motor for 10k RPM and throw in a high flowing turbo. The cams would allow you to run more boost. You would have a high reving monster.

All of these builds will be on the aggressive side. You will need to have a good tune and getting it tuned will be more challenging. On the bright side you can start at lower boost then start turning it up as it gets dialed in.
Personally I would consider wideband, EGT and quality knock monitoring essential.


By todays standards 9:1 is quite low comp. This is the kind of compression I would only choose if I was going for a monster power build like 400-700 HP.
It would give you a lot of margin for error until you got up to a pretty high level of boost. Getting to 20 PSI shouldn't be terribly hard even on stock cams.


This is where it's nice to look at the middle ground and see if some range inbetween is more ideal for you.
10-11:1 and some 256-264 cams should make the 15 PSI range pretty easily achievable, a little more margin for error while still keeping a pretty high BSFC.


A couple things to note. I may have mentioned some of this above but I'm too lazy to read through the thread.
All shelf pistons are based off horrible numbers. Don't trust them. Run all the numbers your self. If you buy piston through me I am happy to work through some of this as well.
Most of them use crazy combustion chamber volumes so their rated CR will usually be off. They also all seemed to pull the compression heights out of their @$$. They are all different and pretty much all wrong. Not only will this effect your compression but it will also effect your squish gap. The stock pistons are pretty much flat with the block. With the stock HG the squish gap is on the big side of acceptable. With a .8mm HG it's pretty dang close to idea. Some artermarket pistons put it a little below the deck. With a stock HG you are starting to wonder out of the acceptable range. On the other hand some sit above the deck enough that .8mm HG starts to get close enough to start to worry. A light block shave and you could be kissing the head at high temps and RPM.

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