Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

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Ae86-George
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Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby Ae86-George » Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:26 pm

Okay so I am in the process to buying an ae86 (guy had it in his barn and had no idea what it was).
So I don't really want it for drifting but I know how well balanced they are and want a good handling street car.
So what is the skid pad rating? And do they really handle that well or do people just say that because they are easy to drift?

Clouds
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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby Clouds » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:22 pm

Hey, George. Welcome to the forum! :D
If it is an SR5, you've got a ways to go before it is "driftable" because it only has about 70-80hp factory (Don't ask if it is wheel or at the tranny, I don't remember). A GT-S with a 2-Way differential would probably be easier, but still kinda difficult. These cars aren't powerful, so it is a bit harder to get them sideways than other cars. This also depends on how good of a driver you are, but I'll let the others talk to you about that. You'll definitely need to put some money into the car if you want it to slide without breaking down 24/7.
I'd recommend looking at people's builds in the owner's build sections to get a feel for how owning will be like. I'd also talk to the owner about how they went about doing maintenance because no one wants a car that the owner kept like a POS.It would also help if you would also help if you said what type of experience you have with cars and how much you are willing to put into the car.
Again, welcome to the forum!
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Ae86-George
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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby Ae86-George » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:06 pm

Clouds wrote:Hey, George. Welcome to the forum! :D
If it is an SR5, you've got a ways to go before it is "driftable" because it only has about 70-80hp factory (Don't ask if it is wheel or at the tranny, I don't remember). A GT-S with a 2-Way differential would probably be easier, but still kinda difficult. These cars aren't powerful, so it is a bit harder to get them sideways than other cars. This also depends on how good of a driver you are, but I'll let the others talk to you about that. You'll definitely need to put some money into the car if you want it to slide without breaking down 24/7.
I'd recommend looking at people's builds in the owner's build sections to get a feel for how owning will be like. I'd also talk to the owner about how they went about doing maintenance because no one wants a car that the owner kept like a POS.It would also help if you would also help if you said what type of experience you have with cars and how much you are willing to put into the car.
Again, welcome to the forum!


Well it's doesnt have An engine in it even. He supposedly is rebuilding it but the last engien he rebuilt (chevy 396) ony had one head gasket. So I wouldn't trust it.

It has flip up headlights so I believe it is a GT-s.

I will probably do a 4agze build for it. But like I said I am not looking for drifting. But I want something that can keep with my brothers Gen3 swapped SW20 MR2. On the track, and maybe even the straight away depending on how overboard my performance oriented alter ego goes on it.

I have a fair amount of car knowledge, but mostly on American muscle.

MtLemmon86
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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby MtLemmon86 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:10 am

For a more competitive track car honestly I'd go with a miata, parts are way more plentiful and much cheaper if your not in love with the AE86 chassis it probably isn't worth the headache one that's been sitting in a barn with no motor is going to be but just my .02

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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby Clouds » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:42 am

Ae86-George wrote:
Clouds wrote:Hey, George. Welcome to the forum! :D
If it is an SR5, you've got a ways to go before it is "driftable" because it only has about 70-80hp factory (Don't ask if it is wheel or at the tranny, I don't remember). A GT-S with a 2-Way differential would probably be easier, but still kinda difficult. These cars aren't powerful, so it is a bit harder to get them sideways than other cars. This also depends on how good of a driver you are, but I'll let the others talk to you about that. You'll definitely need to put some money into the car if you want it to slide without breaking down 24/7.
I'd recommend looking at people's builds in the owner's build sections to get a feel for how owning will be like. I'd also talk to the owner about how they went about doing maintenance because no one wants a car that the owner kept like a POS.It would also help if you would also help if you said what type of experience you have with cars and how much you are willing to put into the car.
Again, welcome to the forum!


Well it's doesnt have An engine in it even. He supposedly is rebuilding it but the last engien he rebuilt (chevy 396) ony had one head gasket. So I wouldn't trust it.

It has flip up headlights so I believe it is a GT-s.

I will probably do a 4agze build for it. But like I said I am not looking for drifting. But I want something that can keep with my brothers Gen3 swapped SW20 MR2. On the track, and maybe even the straight away depending on how overboard my performance oriented alter ego goes on it.

I have a fair amount of car knowledge, but mostly on American muscle.

You've got your work cut out for you to keep up with your bro's MR2. It's lighter and it'll probably make more power. I'd go with MtLemmon and get a Miata and turbo it to get anywhere near the MR2.
There shouldn't be a day that goes by where you don't learn something new.

MtLemmon86
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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby MtLemmon86 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:43 am

Around 200whp is fairly easy and inexpensive for the 1.8 motors in a Miata, it's hard to say how competitive it would be with your brothers sw20 without knowing more about it and you both as drivers but the 1.8 motors handle boost very well and finding a clean Miata for cheap is easy where it took me 6+ years to find an ae86 I was comfortable with.

Ae86-George
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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby Ae86-George » Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:12 pm

MtLemmon86 wrote:For a more competitive track car honestly I'd go with a miata, parts are way more plentiful and much cheaper if your not in love with the AE86 chassis it probably isn't worth the headache one that's been sitting in a barn with no motor is going to be but just my .02

I was looking at miata's but all the nice ones I find are too expensive. Plus I am a big guy and me in the miata is like 10 pounds of crap in a 7 pound sack.
Looks like I can get this one for about 500 bucks. I found a place that sells 4agze half cuts for $1750. That still puts me below what a nice miata would run. Only thing I can find wrong with this car is the back seat is gone.

MtLemmon86
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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby MtLemmon86 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:13 pm

Believe me if its been sitting for a while you'll be changing a lot more than just the motor just be prepared for it, I find it hard to believe a Miata would be harder to find but maybe there's just a ton of miatas out here. But even just swapping a 4agze I don't think would be competitive with an sw20 track wise which is where I was going with the Miata suggestion as well, parts will be cheaper for a Miata and I'm still gonna say that would be the way to go for what you've said your looking for. I recently sold a pristine example of a Miata for 2500 that had less than 100k and ran like a champ had the 1.8 and factory Torsen lsd to boot! I paid 4100 for my 87 gts in non running condition but buyer had paperwork for the rebuilt motor and transmission which was nice but it was advertised as just needing a clutch needless to say I changed just about everything bar the motor internals and transmission to get it running correctly, so now roughly 10,380 give or take and I have a perfect Corolla. That much into a Miata would be very competitive with an mr2, driver skill pending of course. You'll also be scouring for hard to find Corolla bits and waiting for weeks for small parts to come in that will be back or special ordered, it's no picnic and I'm new to the game there are definitely more experienced members as far as corollas go that might be able to enlighten the subject a bit but hopefully you get my gist, not trying to discourage you either way just sharing my experience.

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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby Ae86-George » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:53 am

MtLemmon86 wrote:Believe me if its been sitting for a while you'll be changing a lot more than just the motor just be prepared for it, I find it hard to believe a Miata would be harder to find but maybe there's just a ton of miatas out here. But even just swapping a 4agze I don't think would be competitive with an sw20 track wise which is where I was going with the Miata suggestion as well, parts will be cheaper for a Miata and I'm still gonna say that would be the way to go for what you've said your looking for. I recently sold a pristine example of a Miata for 2500 that had less than 100k and ran like a champ had the 1.8 and factory Torsen lsd to boot! I paid 4100 for my 87 gts in non running condition but buyer had paperwork for the rebuilt motor and transmission which was nice but it was advertised as just needing a clutch needless to say I changed just about everything bar the motor internals and transmission to get it running correctly, so now roughly 10,380 give or take and I have a perfect Corolla. That much into a Miata would be very competitive with an mr2, driver skill pending of course. You'll also be scouring for hard to find Corolla bits and waiting for weeks for small parts to come in that will be back or special ordered, it's no picnic and I'm new to the game there are definitely more experienced members as far as corollas go that might be able to enlighten the subject a bit but hopefully you get my gist, not trying to discourage you either way just sharing my experience.

I appreciate it. I might start looking for a miata again.

MtLemmon86
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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby MtLemmon86 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:54 am

What area of the country are you in? Make sure you check out club roadster and any local autocross forums you might have, best of luck to you sir, I know I would have a hard time passing up on a 500 dollar eight six but that almost seems way too good to be true.

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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby InitialB » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:19 am

Ae86-George wrote:It has flip up headlights so I believe it is a GT-s.


Flip up headlights don't make it a GT-S. Flip up lights make it a Trueno. If the rear end has drum brakes, then you have an SR5.

Also, if you want to keep up with that SW20, I'd recommend a big power engine. So you should look into going Honda F20/F22 or even 13B Rotary. Even with all that, you'll want all the fiberglass body parts you can get.. Trunk, bumpers, hood, fenders, and maybe even doors (I'd recommend a cage with that). Then to put down that power, you'll want to run some kind of widebody/flare so that you can run some big ol' wheels. N2 spec in the area of 15x9.5 -20 and 15x10 -25 with some 235/245. N2 guys run 265 if you are feeling crazy.

Then I suggest you get a lot of suspension help. Proper coilovers (custom or off the shelf), panhard rod/watts link ;) , 4-link arms, and some REALLY GOOD BRAKES to stop that big power.

With a setup like that you'll be ditching him easy. But it would definitely be more cost effective to just buy an S2000 or an RX-7 at that point.

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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby Ae86-George » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:59 pm

InitialB wrote:
Ae86-George wrote:It has flip up headlights so I believe it is a GT-s.


Flip up headlights don't make it a GT-S. Flip up lights make it a Trueno. If the rear end has drum brakes, then you have an SR5.

Also, if you want to keep up with that SW20, I'd recommend a big power engine. So you should look into going Honda F20/F22 or even 13B Rotary. Even with all that, you'll want all the fiberglass body parts you can get.. Trunk, bumpers, hood, fenders, and maybe even doors (I'd recommend a cage with that). Then to put down that power, you'll want to run some kind of widebody/flare so that you can run some big ol' wheels. N2 spec in the area of 15x9.5 -20 and 15x10 -25 with some 235/245. N2 guys run 265 if you are feeling crazy.

Then I suggest you get a lot of suspension help. Proper coilovers (custom or off the shelf), panhard rod/watts link ;) , 4-link arms, and some REALLY GOOD BRAKES to stop that big power.

With a setup like that you'll be ditching him easy. But it would definitely be more cost effective to just buy an S2000 or an RX-7 at that point.

I do have a turbo 2 power train sitting on my garage. Hmm.

I may just pass this one up. Actually looking at it a second time I think it might actually be a ae85. And I don't feel like going through the effort to convert all that. Infortunatly the driver side door latch is busted and I can't see the vin.

So I may just pass this up and continue on my way. Probably looks for a miata or turbo 2, Or maybe even MR2.

I appreciate all the input guys. I'll keep my account on here because I will be acquiring a celica and a mk2 supra in the near future and might need some help since they are the same era as the ae86.

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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby Esenpai » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:43 pm

Clouds wrote:
Ae86-George wrote:
Clouds wrote:Hey, George. Welcome to the forum! :D
If it is an SR5, you've got a ways to go before it is "driftable" because it only has about 70-80hp factory (Don't ask if it is wheel or at the tranny, I don't remember). A GT-S with a 2-Way differential would probably be easier, but still kinda difficult. These cars aren't powerful, so it is a bit harder to get them sideways than other cars. This also depends on how good of a driver you are, but I'll let the others talk to you about that. You'll definitely need to put some money into the car if you want it to slide without breaking down 24/7.
I'd recommend looking at people's builds in the owner's build sections to get a feel for how owning will be like. I'd also talk to the owner about how they went about doing maintenance because no one wants a car that the owner kept like a POS.It would also help if you would also help if you said what type of experience you have with cars and how much you are willing to put into the car.
Again, welcome to the forum!


Well it's doesnt have An engine in it even. He supposedly is rebuilding it but the last engien he rebuilt (chevy 396) ony had one head gasket. So I wouldn't trust it.

It has flip up headlights so I believe it is a GT-s.

I will probably do a 4agze build for it. But like I said I am not looking for drifting. But I want something that can keep with my brothers Gen3 swapped SW20 MR2. On the track, and maybe even the straight away depending on how overboard my performance oriented alter ego goes on it.

I have a fair amount of car knowledge, but mostly on American muscle.

You've got your work cut out for you to keep up with your bro's MR2. It's lighter and it'll probably make more power. I'd go with MtLemmon and get a Miata and turbo it to get anywhere near the MR2.


MR2s are quite a bit heavier then an AE they're even heavier then a s2000 especially if its a turbo set up. a good 600-800lbs heavier.. unless they've done a lot of weight reduction also. a gen 3 swapped mr2 is like 300hp or so I believe stock. plus that was when they started to implement lsd trannys standard into the mr2 turbo. If you want to keep the 4 banger na idea behind the ae I'd F20 or blacktop Beams 3S would be the way to go. both are similar performing engines. But if you want to stay true the the ae blacktop 20v fully built is the way to do it. if you're handy with a wrench and are a good problem solver you can get it done. even go 7a BT just be sure to have everything balanced and to check your numbers if you want it to last. but to be honest I'd get driving the stock ae down before you go more power you'll have time to fine tune your skill set and then when you finally do go bigger you'll already know the car well enough to handle it don't be one of those guys that hides behind his v8 lol. 200hp in these little cars is plenty more then they need to smash on anything on the track if you got the skill set to back it up. good luck!
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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby InitialB » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:52 am

Ae86-George wrote: I may just pass this one up. Actually looking at it a second time I think it might actually be a ae85.


If you already have a Turbo II engine hanging around, I'd say buy the Corolla and throw that bad boy in there! It's Rotorolla time!

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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:45 pm

If you are looking for handling I would go AW11 over AE86. Fully independent suspension, mid engine, etc. Dollar for dollar it will always out handle an 86.
Definitely don't waste your time with a GZE swap if you want to keep up with a 3SGTE. It's an expensive step sideways. If you like the 4AGE then go turbo. Then it really depends on what kind of mods your brother has. It wouldn't be hard to get a 4AGTE to keep up with a stock 3SGTE and all in all the 4AGE is at least as strong but it will always have the displacement disadvantage.
Building a 7AGE with a 7A bottom end and 4AG head end would help a good bit.
http://www.matrixgarage.com/content/get ... brid-build

Either AW11 or AE86 will have a good weight advantage on an SW20. The AW11 is a little heavier than the AE86 but that weight is all in chassis rigidity which is why you don't see nearly as much available in aftermarket chassis reinforcement for it.

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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby Esenpai » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:09 pm

wot mate?
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Re: Skid pad rating? and handling questions.

Postby Moto_Club4AG » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:07 pm

Just drive the piss out of it, and worry about handing later. We bought our first AE86 in 1988, and thought to be the Slowest, Lightweight, most fun, reliable car. It wasn't till 1995 we started to take it apart, modify things throughly and compete in real races with scores. By 2002, we've won SCCA Solo2, had a capable Formula D car, AE86 Cup car, all dedicated from different AE86's and all with different modifications to stay legal in class, and operate reliably. Taka Aono came from SW20's and it was my fault that he fell in love with an AE86. It was contagious how we built and posted new races competitively in many racing areas. But I don't think we consulted the Internet so much as providing the knowledge of how we suffered, conquered, and pushed.

All fun, but Club4AG is something we started as a diary of all our career and builds.

Just go out and play. You'll know soon, what to change and where to tweak. Don't get caught up with numbers so much, as specs will constantly change with how we modify these simple cars that have so much hidden potential and while slew of modern upgrades to match.


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