Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

TheOxyMorin
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Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby TheOxyMorin » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:05 pm

Hi ya'll

Once again I'm on the hunt for information.
I'm going to be running a stock Blacktop 20v that will see the streets during the week and a few track events during the year.
Several companies sell velocity stacks for some incredible N/A builds... I'm currently looking into SQ Engineering or TechnoToyTuning (T3) products.

    Would anyone recommend one over the other?

    Filters? Which fit on which size?

    Size matters, which stacks work best in which applications and give the most gains at what RPM?

Post any information you got, anything!!!!
Thanks in advance! - Max

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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby canyon_carvers » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:59 pm

Both product by T3 and SQ are superb. The ones from SQ may take a while to get since it's coming from Australia OR you can check with Battlegarage racing service who sells SQ product and their here in the states. T3 will always have it instock so you'll ge it quick but the only thing with T3 is if you're looking for a specific length, Gabriel may not have it. SQ will...
As for filters, you can go with T3 "UNI" filters and that'll work just fine with SQ. Or you can go with ITG filters.
As for size, it matters.
4age bt bore size are bigger then the silvertop and the length will make a difference and this is where you'll make your decision on how you want your engine to perform. The short stacks are for high end and the mid to long ones are for mid range power. So in general, longer runner length is for lower rpm and shorter runner length is for higher rpm.
T3 sells only 70mm long velocity stacks and SQ will sell from 50mm,70mm,100mm & 110mm. If you're looking for mid range then your choices would start from 70mm and up.

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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby TheOxyMorin » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:07 pm

canyon_carvers wrote:Both product by T3 and SQ are superb. The ones from SQ may take a while to get since it's coming from Australia OR you can check with Battlegarage racing service who sells SQ product and their here in the states. T3 will always have it instock so you'll ge it quick but the only thing with T3 is if you're looking for a specific length, Gabriel may not have it. SQ will...
As for filters, you can go with T3 "UNI" filters and that'll work just fine with SQ. Or you can go with ITG filters.
As for size, it matters.
4age bt bore size are bigger then the silvertop and the length will make a difference and this is where you'll make your decision on how you want your engine to perform. The short stacks are for high end and the mid to long ones are for mid range power. So in general, longer runner length is for lower rpm and shorter runner length is for higher rpm.
T3 sells only 70mm long velocity stacks and SQ will sell from 50mm,70mm,100mm & 110mm. If you're looking for mid range then your choices would start from 70mm and up.


Thanks for the comment :)

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gotzoom?
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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby gotzoom? » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:26 am

Just for the record, the purpose of velocity stacks is to improve performance. If the stacks are not designed with the correct shape, they either won't improve performance or may reduce performance. You want a proper bellmouth shape in order to improve performance. The best design I have seen so far is from Tec Art's. Most other design are not a proper bellmouth.

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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby burdickjp » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:22 pm

gotzoom? wrote:Just for the record, the purpose of velocity stacks is to improve performance. If the stacks are not designed with the correct shape, they either won't improve performance or may reduce performance. You want a proper bellmouth shape in order to improve performance. The best design I have seen so far is from Tec Art's. Most other design are not a proper bellmouth.


If you're going to state something 'for the record', please cite your sources.

I'm guessing you're talking these?
Image

and not these?
Image

Velocity stacks serve two purposes. First, they are part of determining the overall length of the intake runner and thus affects its natural harmonics. Unfortunately, most simplified harmonics formulas are based on overall intake length, from the valve seat to the end of the runner, and intake camshaft timing, so what may be good for one engine might not be best for another. Many, many companies make stacks in the 70-80mm range, which may be indicative of something, especially for an otherwise stock blacktop 20v.

Second, velocity stacks are used to try and increase the discharge coefficient of the interface between the intake and atmosphere.
According to research reported by the late Professor Gordon P. Blair in "Best Bell" even a simple radius can be effective.

T3 stacks have a small radius, which may be comparatively detrimental. SQ bells have a good flare and a large radius.
Pursuing the ideal

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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:07 pm

burdickjp wrote:
gotzoom? wrote:Just for the record, the purpose of velocity stacks is to improve performance. If the stacks are not designed with the correct shape, they either won't improve performance or may reduce performance. You want a proper bellmouth shape in order to improve performance. The best design I have seen so far is from Tec Art's. Most other design are not a proper bellmouth.


If you're going to state something 'for the record', please cite your sources.
Second, velocity stacks are used to try and increase the discharge coefficient of the interface between the intake and atmosphere.
According to research reported by the late Professor Gordon P. Blair in "Best Bell" even a simple radius can be effective.


I was going to post the same link.
"Proper Bellmouth" doesn't really mean anything. I also agree with the point of that study in that any bellmouth is better than no bellmouth but some designs will be better than others.
The bellmouths I designed for my build were based as closely as possible off the eliptical design in that study as much as possible given the limited space I had to work with and the fact that my forming tool was hand made.
Image
Image
Image

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jondee86
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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby jondee86 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:11 pm

What is the core above the stacks in the ^^^ above pic ? Is it used
as an air straightener ?

Cheers... jondee86
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persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:18 pm

jondee86 wrote:What is the core above the stacks in the ^^^ above pic ? Is it used
as an air straightener ?

Cheers... jondee86


Lol it's my water to air intercooler core.

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jondee86
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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby jondee86 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:54 pm

Fair enough... I couldn't see any connections on it, so I figured
you might have been doing something strange :)

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:59 pm

jondee86 wrote:Fair enough... I couldn't see any connections on it, so I figured
you might have been doing something strange :)

Cheers... jondee86


Nope, nothing strange here. Just took the pic mid way through welding it up.

Image

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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby TheOxyMorin » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:58 am

yoshimitsuspeed wrote:
jondee86 wrote:Fair enough... I couldn't see any connections on it, so I figured
you might have been doing something strange :)

Cheers... jondee86


Nope, nothing strange here. Just took the pic mid way through welding it up.

Image


This picture makes me incredibly sad.

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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:17 am

TheOxyMorin wrote:
yoshimitsuspeed wrote:
This picture makes me incredibly sad.


That's a bummer.
It makes me incredibly happy. :mrgreen:

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BattleGarage_RS
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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby BattleGarage_RS » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:15 pm

Just an FYI guys, we normally have SQ stacks in stock for our friends in the US and Canada. 43 and 50mm will be special order, we have several sets of 70mm, and just recently sold out on 100-110mm.

We have had customers that really liked the mid-range AND top end gain with the 110mm/100mm stacks. I will hopefully be verifying these reports by taking my car for an extended dyno session in the next couple of months.

Thanks
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YoShImUrA
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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby YoShImUrA » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:43 am

I wish there was an actual study on our engines on which length to use when, and more importantly, why, to understand the reasoning behind it.

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jondee86
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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby jondee86 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:10 pm

The best all round velocity stacks for the 20V BT are the ones that came with
the engine from the factory. Toyota will have spent thousands of hours perfecting
the shape and size to be the best compromise between packaging, performance
and acceptable sound level for a general market car. I have not yet seen a report
on an aftermarket stack that can give better all round performance.

Yes... in some cases shorter stacks will give a bit more top end at the expense
of losing a bit of bottom end performance. Long stacks may produce a little more
torque low down only to lose power at high rpm. So why do we use aftermarket
velocity stacks ?? Is it because...

1. They look cool without filters.
2. They promote road safety because people can hear you approaching.
3. They make a cool noise (skank whistle ?).
4. It is easier to use open stacks than build a proper cold air box.
5. You live in a dust free area.
6. They make your car sound fast.
7. They improve performance.

I have read some detailed analysis of intake/stack design written by people who
get right into the maths and numbers. They can show that for a certain intake
length, rpm, valve timing, exhaust design, etc a certain length of stack will show
some improvement at X rpm and lose a bit at Y rpm. By fiddling with the variables
you can move these plus and minus zones up or down the engine speed range.

And no two engines are exactly alike, so results will vary. This is why no-one will
come out with a velocity stack design that is guaranteed to improve performance.
Of course, some people will get lucky and buy a stack that actually does something
in the rpm range they use. Others will gain nothing or lose some... luck of the draw.

The nice thing is that you can justify your purchase with one of the other reasons
for putting aftermarket stacks on your car :D

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: Blacktop 20v Velocity Stacks

Postby YoShImUrA » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:31 am

I've always thought of putting vel stacks and then isolate them in a plenum, probably the stock one, or make one that fits them, getting not too long stacks, like what my engine builder recommends me to get (63mm) so that they fit with the plenum, and then have that "protected" by connecting it to an airbox with a proper filter, pretty much resulting in something like the oem setup for the 86, but with improved performance.

For the time being I'll settle to fit those 63mm ones with an ITG filter and try to isolate the heat from the radiator from the intake area.


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