Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

onnaj
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Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby onnaj » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:16 pm

Who knows the number of the Cylinder head bolts of the 4AGE 20V BT?

Can't find them anywhere. I search using this number: 9091002106.
Are there any alternatives to these bolts? I don't need ARP ones, cause i'm staying completely stock. Will the 16V Head bolts also work? Or can i reuse them?

Can we reuse the crankshaft bolts and connecting rod bolts btw?

thanks!
Check my 4AGE 20V BT teardown, rebuild and transplantation over here --> http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3382

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Army Fork
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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby Army Fork » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:11 pm

The 16V (from what I understand) uses unequal bolts while the 20V uses equal length bolts, from what I know you cannot use any 16V bolt set with a 20V. Your main and rod bolts should be fine to use unless they've been stretched or damaged, the blacktop manual should have the factory lengths so you can find out if they've been stretched or not, same goes for your head bolts.
1984 SR5-GTS 20V ST/BT coupe.
- Stance GR+ Coilovers
- Mishimoto Cooling
- T3 adjustable 4-bar, Panhard, traction brackets, tension rods
- T3 Short shift
- Manual rack conversion
- Blacktop electronics

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby ga_goosh » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:26 pm

your part number is correct but that is a japan only part number. im not sure but if you buy 2 sets of the 16v head bolts then you can use all the exhaust bolts on your 20v.
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onnaj
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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby onnaj » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:43 pm

ga_goosh wrote:your part number is correct but that is a japan only part number. im not sure but if you buy 2 sets of the 16v head bolts then you can use all the exhaust bolts on your 20v.


Hmm that would be great. I might do that then.
Check my 4AGE 20V BT teardown, rebuild and transplantation over here --> http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3382

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Army Fork
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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby Army Fork » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:49 pm

The exhaust bolts are identical in length to the 20V bolts, I've measured them myself (ARP studs to OEM bolts). Might be the way to go if nothing else, it should however be noted that the 16V uses different torque specs than the 20V (47 ft.lbs for the 20V, 60 ft.lbs on the 16V). The reasoning behind this may either have to do with different materials used for the bolts or the differences between the engines, I haven't done the research to confirm that yet. As always it is ideal to use OEM parts whenever possible and avoid mixing/matching components. If I have the chance I'll look into it tonight and see why there is a discrepancy.
1984 SR5-GTS 20V ST/BT coupe.
- Stance GR+ Coilovers
- Mishimoto Cooling
- T3 adjustable 4-bar, Panhard, traction brackets, tension rods
- T3 Short shift
- Manual rack conversion
- Blacktop electronics


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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby Army Fork » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:21 pm

So I did some thinking and I can only think of two reasons for the difference in torque,

1: The lower torque on the 20V may be due to the nature of the engine, such as the crush on the head gasket
2: The bolt materials are different and may react to torque differently, sadly I don't have the time to check.

I'd say it's best to stick to OEM bolts. Keep it safe if you can.
1984 SR5-GTS 20V ST/BT coupe.
- Stance GR+ Coilovers
- Mishimoto Cooling
- T3 adjustable 4-bar, Panhard, traction brackets, tension rods
- T3 Short shift
- Manual rack conversion
- Blacktop electronics

onnaj
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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby onnaj » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:24 am

Army Fork wrote:The exhaust bolts are identical in length to the 20V bolts, I've measured them myself (ARP studs to OEM bolts). Might be the way to go if nothing else, it should however be noted that the 16V uses different torque specs than the 20V (47 ft.lbs for the 20V, 60 ft.lbs on the 16V). The reasoning behind this may either have to do with different materials used for the bolts or the differences between the engines, I haven't done the research to confirm that yet. As always it is ideal to use OEM parts whenever possible and avoid mixing/matching components. If I have the chance I'll look into it tonight and see why there is a discrepancy.


That would be very nice if you can check it. i've never been a fan of reusing head bolts, but maybe this is going to be the first time ;)
Check my 4AGE 20V BT teardown, rebuild and transplantation over here --> http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3382

onnaj
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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby onnaj » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:41 am

Army Fork wrote: Might be the way to go if nothing else, it should however be noted that the 16V uses different torque specs than the 20V (47 ft.lbs for the 20V, 60 ft.lbs on the 16V). y.


I don't know if it has to be done with the 16V bolts. But with the 20V bolts you all torque them to 22 ft.lbs (30NM), then retighten them 90 degrees and then again retighten them 90 degrees again. Maybe they're then at the same spec?
Check my 4AGE 20V BT teardown, rebuild and transplantation over here --> http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3382

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby allencr » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:23 am

Army Fork wrote:60 ft.lbs on the 16V).


Please post which Haynes/Clymers/whatever manual you read that obvious misprint from!!
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//
//
Really, 60 isn't a bad or outrageous number for the size & Toyota quality bolts, it just isn't a factory spec or translation error, and will really be pushing the limit when using some really slippery moly for assembly.

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby carbd7age » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:33 am

What is the length of 20v bolts? 4AC's use equal length bolts, would a 4AC bolt set fit a 20b head?
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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby Army Fork » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:30 am

60 Ft.Lbs is ARP spec, I also read it on another site but I can't remember which, so really it's just ARP spec. For whatever reason that's what they instruct you to torque the bolts to.
1984 SR5-GTS 20V ST/BT coupe.
- Stance GR+ Coilovers
- Mishimoto Cooling
- T3 adjustable 4-bar, Panhard, traction brackets, tension rods
- T3 Short shift
- Manual rack conversion
- Blacktop electronics

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby gotzoom? » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:31 am

allencr provided the correct answer. ;)

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby Army Fork » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:04 am

The 60 ft.lbs is what ARP will tell you to run for their bolts when you open up the box, that's all I can attest to.
1984 SR5-GTS 20V ST/BT coupe.
- Stance GR+ Coilovers
- Mishimoto Cooling
- T3 adjustable 4-bar, Panhard, traction brackets, tension rods
- T3 Short shift
- Manual rack conversion
- Blacktop electronics

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby onnaj » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:27 am

I have both the 4AGE 20V BT and 4AGE 16V manual (didn't know that ;). But in both manuals it's stated that you should use 29 Nm of torque at first, then 90 degrees extra and after that another 90 degrees extra. I think with this we can say that the bolt specifications should be the same and it shouldn't be a problem to use the 16V Exhaust bolts on the 20V.
Check my 4AGE 20V BT teardown, rebuild and transplantation over here --> http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3382

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby MisterJerk » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:43 am

Army Fork wrote:The 60 ft.lbs is what ARP will tell you to run for their bolts when you open up the box, that's all I can attest to.



This is what i torque my 16v head to with a trd 0.8mm HG with stock head bolts. of course i don't just torque them to that, multiple stages with the proper sequence. IMHO/experience, TRD HG will leak if not torqued to at least 60 ft/lbs.

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby onnaj » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:23 pm

I recieved the 16V exhaust side head bolts today i can tell for sure they are different!
Look for yourself. I ain't gonna use these on my 20V head for sure.

Image

Image

Image
Check my 4AGE 20V BT teardown, rebuild and transplantation over here --> http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3382

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby Army Fork » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:28 pm

Don't know what to say man. I'd order these ARP's if you have the cash

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ARP-Head-Studs-C ... 2253wt_822

I've actually bought parts from IPG before, they're legitimate sellers.
1984 SR5-GTS 20V ST/BT coupe.
- Stance GR+ Coilovers
- Mishimoto Cooling
- T3 adjustable 4-bar, Panhard, traction brackets, tension rods
- T3 Short shift
- Manual rack conversion
- Blacktop electronics

onnaj
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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby onnaj » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:31 pm

Army Fork wrote:Don't know what to say man. I'd order these ARP's if you have the cash

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ARP-Head-Studs-C ... 2253wt_822

I've actually bought parts from IPG before, they're legitimate sellers.


Me neither. I'm going to meausure all the bolts i have now and see if they're stretched. If not, and that's what i think, i'm going to reuse them.
Check my 4AGE 20V BT teardown, rebuild and transplantation over here --> http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3382

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby Army Fork » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:43 pm

I did for my 20V, Toyota apparently did not use TTY for their bolts so unless they're clearly elongated out of spec or there's damage to the bolt, I don't see why you can't reuse them.

I'd get your hands on some ARP torque grease or something like it, just for that extra bit of security.
1984 SR5-GTS 20V ST/BT coupe.
- Stance GR+ Coilovers
- Mishimoto Cooling
- T3 adjustable 4-bar, Panhard, traction brackets, tension rods
- T3 Short shift
- Manual rack conversion
- Blacktop electronics

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:10 pm

I just got the ARP head studs up on my site that are reported to work for the 20V. You have to order everything individually. 10 studs plus one pack of nuts and one pack of washers. The cost is about the same as the 16V ARP kit.
I haven't used these studs but they are the same part numbers referenced many times by multiple people in the 20v part list thread on the MR2OC.
http://matrixgarage.com/store/20v-top-end

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby AZNWOKZ » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:35 pm

You can always call ARP tech support to order the 4AGE 20V head bolts,etc. They have it in their system to send you them. The reason why I was told because they don't have a part number for USA market and it is not common. Just like other Shops can order individual bolts and studs. Head studs are reuseable as I just don't trust head bolts after one use.

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:51 pm

I thought about looking into this for my store but then I realized I have to sell the full kits at about my cost to be competitive with anyone. Offereing the individual components I get to come in cheaper than I could find the 16V 4AGE set and still actually make a couple bucks on the deal. It may not come with torque instructions or in a fancy package or what ever but it seems like the proper torque procedure can be found plenty easy across the boards.

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby onnaj » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:15 am

I'm going for reusing them. The standard specs (from factory new) are between 114 and 115 mm (4.4882 - 4.5276in). The maximum spec is 116.5 mm (4.5886in). Mine are between 114.7mm and 114.8 mm, so i can say that those are as new!

Image

EDIT: Corrected the specs
Check my 4AGE 20V BT teardown, rebuild and transplantation over here --> http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3382

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby Army Fork » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:49 am

Sounds good.
1984 SR5-GTS 20V ST/BT coupe.
- Stance GR+ Coilovers
- Mishimoto Cooling
- T3 adjustable 4-bar, Panhard, traction brackets, tension rods
- T3 Short shift
- Manual rack conversion
- Blacktop electronics

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby allencr » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:44 pm

How's the surface under their head?
Turn their washers over to get a nice new flat smooth un-galled surface to tighten down on.

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Re: Part number Cylinder Head Bolts 4AGE 20V + reusage bolts

Postby onnaj » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:20 pm

They all look really as new. When i meausured the head of the bolts at a few points they only differ 0.02 or 0.03 mm. That means they're not completely flat, but almost :D
Check my 4AGE 20V BT teardown, rebuild and transplantation over here --> http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3382

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