Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

onnaj
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Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby onnaj » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:19 pm

Hello,

I want to change my blacktop oil pump to the silvertop pump due to the hydraulic tensioner which tends to fail.

I've found this one: http://www.autopartoo.com/oem/toyota/1510019036.html

Is that the one i should and can use? I think the OEM number is correct. I don't want the engine to go bad, that's why i check. Ofcourse i also don't just throw my money away, that's why i'm looking for possibilities.

Thanks
Check my 4AGE 20V BT teardown, rebuild and transplantation over here --> http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3382

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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby xb_release_2 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:34 am

Blacktop Oil Pump: 15100-19045
Silvertop Oil Pump: 15100-19036

Technically it will bolt on fine but you will need silver top, red top, or blue top timing tensioner set up. Hope this helps

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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby gaijin_rokurunner » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:39 pm

you can always modify your Hydraulic tensioner to be manual and save some money like this
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morgan
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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby morgan » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:11 pm

Go with ST or red top pump with GTS tensioner and timing belt. The adjustable bT tensioner mod has a possibility og the bronze insert that's tapped and threaded, to work its way out. It's only press fit in so over time it has the opportunity to start ,working its way out.
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HASport AE86
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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby HASport AE86 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:29 pm

Ae92 oil pump, ae86 tensioner with spring and pin for block, ae101 timing belt.
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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby gaijin_rokurunner » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:21 pm

actually u dont need the ae101 timing belt i managed to fit the ST pump, 86 tensioner without spring and pin and the ae111 timing belt with no problem. you can see below my setup using the power enterprise ae111 timing belt....the tensioner is maxed out all the way to the left and then the bolt was tightened with loctite...cant lose tension at all...and u can see my bracket for the extra FA tensioner incase the belt stretches over time......proven it can be done...
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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby NostalgicHiro20v » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:37 pm

HASport AE86 wrote:Ae92 oil pump, ae86 tensioner with spring and pin for block, ae101 timing belt.

is there a gamble trying to run the AE111 belt on my AE111 engine with this mod or is it totally legit? Is the AE101 conversion any better or is it a waste of money given the above conversion(Ae92 oil pump, ae86 tensioner with spring and pin for block, ae101 timing belt) is readily available? I dont wanna keep worrying about this hydro tensioner even though it's been serviced.

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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby gaijin_rokurunner » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:51 pm

The tensioner mod above is worry free or u can go a step further and drill the whole assembly out and put a longer bolt...i havent heard of any manual conversion failing and if it did thats operator error with the mod...people use the the ae101 belt because they cant fit the ae111 around the tensioner...but it can be done and does work...
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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby NostalgicHiro20v » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:35 pm

Excellent. Very good to know. I dont want something like this being the achilles of my BT 20v

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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby HASport AE86 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:11 am

I've retained the AE86 tensioner with the spring and block pin for the spring. If the timing belt needs to flex, I want the belt tensioner to take up the slack. I don't like the idea of a solid tensioner as any tension applied to the belt is a stretch force on the timing belt. I would rather have the tensioner working as designed rather than have the belt stretch and break on a interference engine.

The parts I listed I'm running because they can all be sourced at any aftermarket parts store right here in the USA for pennies compared to the 20v parts. The AE92 oil pump is similar in design to the 20v pump and has the spring tensioner. You will need the small metal pin that goes in all the 16v blocks though for the tensioner spring. Just grab a pair of pliers and wiggle/spin/pull it out of the block and insert in the pin hole on the 20v block. Then you just run the 16v AE86 water pump, 16v AE86 alternater and AE86 alternator bracket, and all the 16v AE86 pulleys. You are really just taking the 20v and making all things belt driving 16v AE86.

The only weak points I've found of the BT 20v:
-They burn up distributor caps so check them often. They can be bought from any local toyota dealer with the correct part number. Give them the part number, tell them to check "availability" of the part and to order it. It may not be in their computer catalog but it WILL be in the wharehouse inventory.
-Valve guide seals suck. 90% of 20v burn oil because the valve guide seals are brittle and old. They are the same as Toyota Echo engines.
-Oil temps spin rod bearings. Extended track time with no oil cooler burns up the #4 cylinder rod bearing. Every engine I've rebuilt has spun this bearing only for some reason. Invest in a good oil cooler setup.
-Hydraulic tensioner fails. The timing belt tensioner on BT 20v's get's old and can fail causing bent valves. Replace with new asap or convert to spring tensioner.
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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby NostalgicHiro20v » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:12 pm

Dude, HASport AE86 that is soooooo freakin' helpful. I haven't had my 20v BT for long but this relly helps. Knowing the basics can go a long way. Thanks for the lifesaving info.

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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby HASport AE86 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:43 am

20v's are great engines, there is just very little info on them here stateside. Most people get frustrated with them and toss them away. They are super reliable and just about all of the 20v parts can be found here by cross referencing parts.

The knock sensor is the same as a 2JZ or one of those 4AFE Tercels
The map sensor from a 4AFE Tercel works fine
The coils are the same as all 90's Toyotas/Lexus so long as the connectors plug in
The ignitor from a Lexus ES300 from the 90's works just fine.
The TPS sensor is like the same for all 90's Toyotas, iirc the Tercel one works too.
Distributor cap/rotor you can get with the part number from any local Toyota dealer
Spark plug wires you can get from any toyota dealer with the providing them the part number
Timing belts you can get at any local toyota dealer.
Valve guide seals are the same as a Toyota Echo
Distributor O-ring is the same as a 16v
20v headgaskets you can get from the toyota dealer or just use a 16v one with a 16v water pump
Everything bottom end you can use from a 1991 Corolla GTS high comp

Just about all 20v problems are either installation error or a bad sensor. Cool thing is most of this stuff you can get at the junkyard and half off day at that.
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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby NostalgicHiro20v » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:38 am

HASport AE86 wrote:-Valve guide seals suck. 90% of 20v burn oil because the valve guide seals are brittle and old. They are the same as Toyota Echo engines.

AS far as the valve guide seals, are there any reputable machine shops you can reccomend in the San Diego or even L.A. area that can service the black top 20v head? Are bronze valveguides something you would recommend or are they worth it?

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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby gaijin_rokurunner » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:12 am

I wouldnt use bronze guides...alot of work to change them and they wear faster then the oem...as long as nothing is wrong with your current ones i wouldnt mess with them you dont get any substantial gain in anything but u poke a hole in your pocket...i sell aftermarket valves for blacktops with have coated stems for reduced friction if your interested...something u will need which u cant get stateside are shims...especially if you get the seats recut and use aftermarket valves.
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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby NostalgicHiro20v » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:29 pm

@ gaijin_rokurunner- So do you do your own machine work or is there a machine shop out there you trust?

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Re: Can i use this oil pump on my 20V Blacktop?

Postby gaijin_rokurunner » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:11 pm

No I dont...I use Quick Silver Race Engines here in Maryland....they are one of the top formula builders along side Hasselgren, Loyning, and Elite....any of those would do for your needs but they are not cheap
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