OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

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OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:04 am

Image


Back in February I was contacted to build an engine for an N2 Levin replica being built in America. The client was not looking for all out power, but they did want a big valve 7AGE.

more to come....... :D
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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby Gripen » Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:35 am

I suspect a lot of work going into the head for this one. Big cams and valves. Replacement of the valve seats to accommodate the new valves?
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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:28 am

Gripen wrote:I suspect a lot of work going into the head for this one. Big cams and valves. Replacement of the valve seats to accommodate the new valves?

This head will be similar to OST-043, so yes... a great deal of work - beginning with new valve seats.


from another forum wrote:So then the owner will retain the stock internals of the 7AGE? Or will you replace it with something else instead? :dumb:


Actually this will be a fair bit higher end then that. OST-070 will be running Saenz Rods, OST designed pistons, Ferrea valves, Cat cams 9mm lift cams, and Tec-Arts ITB system. It will remain a wet sump, and the cams duration should peak @ about 8000-8100


more to come.... :D
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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:36 am

from another forum wrote:Nice!
And what about the crank shaft? Will that be MRP or 2ZZ?


to remain 7A...

OST wrote:Back in February I was contacted to build an engine for an N2 Levin replica being built in America. The client was not looking for all out power, but they did want a big valve 7AGE.


About a week ago this arrived.....

Image


.... and once opened....

Image



... and once unpacked...

Image


the 4A oil pan was used to make shipping a bit easier


more to come...... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:53 am

from another forum wrote:
Will you be using a 4AGE Oil pump?


yes... with a few minor modifications (more later)


Some of the parts..... from around the world......

Ferrea Atlantic valves (USA)

Image



Tec-Arts ITB adapter/kit..... (Japan)

Image


.... and their 7A cooling system adapter

Image


MRP supplied the timing kit... (New Zealand)

Image


as well as the Saenz rods... (on a familiar cart ;) ) (USA)

Image


Also using MRP's oil pan.

Image


And for the first time, I'll be using Flo's engine bolt kit (Ireland)

Image


I'll also be using Cat Cams 262/230 9.0mm lift cams, Toda valve springs, and viton rubber valve seals.


more to come.... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby Davegt27 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:47 am

Sounds like fun build
I picked up some 4ag larger valve seats years ago that I been saving for a rainy day
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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:39 am

I'm looking forward to this one, since I still haven't finalized what I want to do with my 7A.
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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:14 pm

from another forum wrote:What is the advantage of the MRP's wet sump, compared to a normal AE86 sump?


3 distinct advantages: 1) Volume... the MRP pan holds 5 quarts, the largest stock pan holds 4, and some 4AG pans holds only 3.5. 2) built in windage tray as well as baffles/trap doors to keep oil around the pick up. 3) extra bungs built in.

The most important of these, without a doubt, is the extra quart of oil.



cleaned and prepped, and epoxied... note oil pan and oil pump have previously seen duty as painting fill ins

Image


now the block waits 3 weeks for the coating to fully cure.

Image



also re-did the crank pulley

Image


more to come....... :D
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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:37 pm

Epoxy instead of paint?

Have you heard of ceramic coating a block, for shedding heat? I was talking to someone at a shop who has ceramic coated parts for me, was getting some ideas. I was thinking about ceramic coating the 4A block that I've been using as a guinea pig (smoothing out the inside casting, etc).
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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:55 am

Rogue-AE95 wrote:Epoxy instead of paint?

Have you heard of ceramic coating a block, for shedding heat? I was talking to someone at a shop who has ceramic coated parts for me, was getting some ideas. I was thinking about ceramic coating the 4A block that I've been using as a guinea pig (smoothing out the inside casting, etc).


Image

same product that I used on OST-050. It is far thinner than paint, and yet once cured far more durable. The look also replicates the original block when new.

Image



I have heard of ceramic coatings on all kinds of engine parts. Typically the 4/7 A blocks don't usually have cooling issues. I have looked into other coatings as well, but this is the most cost effective for what I'm trying to deliver.


more to come... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:17 pm

OK, I remember now. That was the block that was restored to be like it was right off the factory floor, valve covers and all.

I'll have to think about what I want to do with my blocks. One machine shop I talked to said that they don't paint blocks.
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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:49 am

oldeskewltoy wrote:
from another forum wrote:Looking forward to this build, please post as many details as possible, also about the block assembly, would be nice to have a good build tread about a 7AGE, as I am going to build one for my car :dodgy:

Will you be using a 4AGE Oil pump?


yes... with a few minor modifications (more later)


and now its later....

The OEM oil pump will have a number of modifications to help this mild mannered beast stay lubricated. As I've done before, this pump got mildly ported, smoothing the transition at the entrance to the pump(3), tapering the exit from the pump body(2), and gently working the inner radius of the pumps exit(1).

Image(photo from OST-053)

I also installed the SQ pressure relief valve spring kit (Australia)

Image


Along with all of those mods, this pump also need one or 2 more......

Image

The 7A block, being taller, has the oil galley slightly further out then the 4A. The 7A pump matches the outlet, but has a few "flaws", the pump gears are not as thick, (so they can't use Toda pump gears) and it fits the "wrong" lower timing cover.

The 4AG pump has a flaw as well....(when using with a 7A block), the outlet isn't in the correct location.


So beginning with a 4AG pump I added 2 more radii, one inner(on the block), and one outer( on the pump) to remedy that

Image


more to come..... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:03 am

I'll have to remember these mods for the 7A-GE I want to build. Speaking of oiling and mods, would it be worthwhile to smooth out or polish the inner section of the block behind where the oil filter sits? And to radius that hole where the oil flows out and into the filter?
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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:43 am

Rogue-AE95 wrote:I'll have to remember these mods for the 7A-GE I want to build. Speaking of oiling and mods, would it be worthwhile to smooth out or polish the inner section of the block behind where the oil filter sits? And to radius that hole where the oil flows out and into the filter?


without a doubt.... radii on flow, fluid flow specifically "helps". As to the need, these engines have run for years without any issues, and while some of the operating parameters will change, my plan is to accommodate those changes. Most of the 7A oiling architecture is the same, or very similar to the 4A.

What is interesting is when going dry sump, the casting where the stock filter goes, gets completely blocked off - example Hasselgren

Image


This engine will be mostly limited by its cams - low 8000 rpm should work fine for the stock oil galleys, and the modified pump.


Back to OST-070, the head is back in my hands... deburring is the first order


intake side...

Image


exhaust side...

Image




Oh... and of course... big valves need big seats

Image



more to come.... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 am

So... after about 6 hours working #1 - all on the intake side.... I decided to do a casting for comparison

Image


Image


Image



more to come.... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:15 am

... and an exhaust port capable of much greater flow........

Image


more to come.... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:29 am

from another forum wrote:The Exhaust gasket you are using here, what specific model is it, and from what company?


The gasket was a collaboration between myself, and SV3* (before they closed). Essentially it is a Blacktop gasket(35mm port exit), that fits both 16V and 20V heads. It also has slightly "adjusted"(.020" down) bolt holes, for better port alignment.


* - http://sv3power.com/_p=939/

unfortunately it is no longer available - (35mm sold out)... although I am trying to see if they will make more.

I do know they do have about 8 of these gaskets remaining designed for full Atlantic ports - 38mm


35mm under 38mm
Image



now 3 down.......


chambers....

Image


and exhaust ports....

Image


more to come..... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:27 pm

Bowl #8... as it transitions from stock to oversize

Image


a different perspective.... on the transition

Image



head is now ready for the new seats to be cut......

Image



more to come... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:01 am

from another forum wrote:Love the details :cheer:

As I am going to use a TVS supercharger 900 or 1320 on my build, with High Lift cams, I was commended to go with 38mm (37mm) Exhaust port.
Do you perhaps know if the 38mm gasket is a 1:1 copy of an TODA gasket?

Just to compare what the local tuner recommends compared to your work, What diameter did you get the new bovls machined to?

I think I read somewhere, that you use some old SR20 valves, when doing the chambers, is this correct? Is there a certain size valve that you use, or is it the same size, as the oversize 4age valves IN32mm EX28mm?

Oversize valve work, is new to me. so hope that I can drain you for some knowledge :angel:


1) copy of Toda - nope... ours is "better" ... because we took into account the gasket drop, so we adjusted ours .020" (bolt holes down, or if you prefer ports up)

2) the bowl/seat diameter (32mm/27.5mm) will be different depending on how much lift you are running.... under .350" lift - keep seat/bowl to 85%, over .400" lift - 88%

I have used other valves to protect seats when I've done the chamber work in the past - when I have machined seat to protect, in this case the seats haven't been cut, so I didn't need to protect them.


the pistons finally arrived....

Image


more to come..... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby mr2mk1hero » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:43 am

I have never seen a better way to see actual porting results than that blue rubber thing :)


"I have used other valves to protect seats when I've done the chamber work in the past - when I have machined seat to protect, in this case the seats haven't been cut, so I didn't need to protect them."

What do you mean by this? How do you use other valve seats to protect existing valve seats? They won't fit over them?
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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:45 am

mr2mk1hero wrote:I have never seen a better way to see actual porting results than that blue rubber thing :)


"I have used other valves to protect seats when I've done the chamber work in the past - when I have machined seat to protect, in this case the seats haven't been cut, so I didn't need to protect them."

What do you mean by this? How do you use other valve seats to protect existing valve seats? They won't fit over them?


do my edits make it clearer? Other valves, not other valve seats......
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:35 am

So... While this is going into an N2 replica, it is being fitted with timing covers to protect the timing belt, and to keep the cam seal retainers*. This requires some fabrication, as there never was a 7AGE, so the timing covers don't readily fit. Additionally, an idler is being added to the long side to eliminate belt slap.

* - not many realize that the rear timing cover is also used to keep the cam seals firmly in the head ;)

Essentially this is a 2 part job - part one, build the foundational parts(rear cover), part two - make a filler panel.

Image

So the rear cover is cut so that it can be lengthened, in this case it was also the area that was needing clearance for the idler.

Image

Note that the "clocking" of the bottom section has changed slightly... this is do to fitting this to a 7A block, as well as keeping the middle timing cover lower exhaust side mount correctly positioned.

This type of work is easier done when using the block and head, while a jig could be made, this is easier.... but if a "production" version were to be made, a jig would likely be better.


So this is what needs to be done to build a 7AG rear timing cover....

Image


with all the mods performed...... (sans refinishing)

Image



and side by side.....

Image


more to come..... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:15 am

over coming "challenges"......

oldeskewltoy wrote:
Essentially this is a 2 part job - part one, build the foundational parts(rear cover), part two - make a filler panel.


So, the filler panel would need to be light, and strong, and easily shaped - that would hold its shape.


Image


Aided by CAD (cardboard aided design).......

Image



and the preliminary fabricated filler panel

Image




So.... besides the timing cover challenge, there were a few other "challenges" we had to overcome....

1) the pressure plate (needed to balance the rotational assembly) never showed.... - lost in transit... :cry: so the process of reporting it, and tracing it, and finally getting another.....

AND....

2) overcoming the "wrong" rods...... for some reason this set of 7AG Saenz rods were not machined for Toyota bearings..... :shock: :evil:

Image

This set of rods were somehow machined for Nissan SR20 rod bearings - where the tang sits further out then the Toyota bearing tang does.... the correct set of ACL bearings.... and all the rods are now @ .0017" ;)


More to come........ :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:59 am

A quick look at the "new" bottom end before it gets closed up.... can you spot any new balancing??

Image



So with the proper head gasket on order, some of the details need further planning...


For one... what to do with a smallport head drain on an engine that didn't have a receptacle for the drain..... so a bit of work to be done on the MRP oil pan.....

Image


Adding a new bung.... and a bit of a trim to the flange - partially to look good, but also to allow a full parameter weld - this bung is not going to leak as it is welded on the inside, and the outside..

Image



Also, as this is a 7A, the MRP pan needs a small spacer to keep the rods away from the internal windage tray.

Image


I have found that when closing up the bottom end, that stacking, could just be stock pan, and windage tray, or this combination - spacer and MRP pan, that using some dowels really helps keep things cleaned (fewer FIPG fingers) and easier to assemble

Image


more to come.... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: OST-070: 7AGE for an N2 Levin

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:52 am

Cometic delivered a new .023" (their thinnest) head gasket.... (the deck on this engine was .012" down)

making sure it is installed correctly...

Image


If installed incorrectly the red circles are where the oil drains would be...


As you see, this build is using the ARP head stud kit...... torqued to 60 pounds

Image

with the slightly shorter stud in the distributor location

Image


more to come......... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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