conversion revisited

tlea
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conversion revisited

Postby tlea » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:37 am

Hi again. Coming back to this, putting a 20v blacktop/auto trans into 1960 Morris. Just got engine back from machine shop and ready to fabricate mounting in car. Couple questions. I need a starter, are they different automatic from manual trans? Also have not been able to locate block plate for automatic trans, I am assuming manual not interchangeable?
Thanks in advance

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jondee86
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby jondee86 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:59 pm

I shall take the standard interweb approach to these questions and offer
an opinion based on no actual knowledge or experience with the topic.
Generally speaking, auto and manual versions of an engine use the same
starter motor. And since both transmissions bolt to the same block with
the same bolts, the back plate should be the same. However, I cannot
back up any of this with hard facts :)

More importantly, what old Morrie are you going to put this engine in ?
Any pictures ? I love to see people doing stuff that most people say can't
be done :)

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

tlea
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby tlea » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:30 am

Its going in a 1960 Traveller. I bought it for my wife but the 50 hp twin carb non synchro trans is a bit of a match for her. Decided a modern EFI auto was the way to go. Once I did my homework the blacktop was obvious choice (compact, reliable, good parts availability and plenty of power) We're just getting ready to start fabricating mounts and will post pictures
Thanks

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jondee86
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby jondee86 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:17 pm

Ahhh.... so something like this...

Image

Forgive me for asking, but I have only ever seen the 4AGE 20 valve blacktop
as a transverse installation in FWD vehicles. What transmission are you using
for your RWD layout ? When I looked into an auto conversion for my car the only
solution I could find was the A42DL from the AE85/SR5 Corolla.

That seemed to be a straighforward conversion other than needing to find an
8-bolt flexplate from a 4AGE FWD auto, Look forward to seeing some pics :)

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:38 pm

Automatic 4AGEs (flexplate) are not common, but did come in the MR2, and the Corolla FX16. You will NEED the proper steel backing plate if using the AE86 version because the one for the automatic has an access panel in it to access the torque converter bolts, where as the one for shift doesn't have the access hole. You MIGHT be able to use the backing plate from an FX16/MR2, it should come as 2 pieces a top larger section, and a smaller piece for the bottom. What I don't know - is if you can mount the split type plate(mr2, and FX16) to the A42DL or not
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: conversion revisited

Postby jinx » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:20 pm

seen quite a few 4ag powered Morris online. Great job on this one, AC and all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN83sEo-Y3I
why not a blue or red top ? What will u do with distributor / firewall ?
With daily driven auto trans, 7A torquey 16V would seem ideal vs screaming hi rpm peaky blacktop

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:51 pm

jinx wrote:With daily driven auto trans, 7A torquey 16V would seem ideal vs screaming hi rpm peaky blacktop


agree
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

tlea
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby tlea » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:45 am

yes using a42dl trans with MR2 flexplate. Decided on the blacktop just because of modern efi (reliability)

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:59 am

tlea wrote:yes using a42dl trans with MR2 flexplate. Decided on the blacktop just because of modern efi (reliability)


16V engines would be simpler, no vvt, no Japan only parts.

Are you a capable mechanic? Or would someone else be doing the work?
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

tlea
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby tlea » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:58 am

oldeskewltoy wrote:
tlea wrote:yes using a42dl trans with MR2 flexplate. Decided on the blacktop just because of modern efi (reliability)


16V engines would be simpler, no vvt, no Japan only parts.

Are you a capable mechanic? Or would someone else be doing the work?

I'd like to think so, just no 4age experience. Here's my website TimLea.com

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:58 am

tlea wrote:
oldeskewltoy wrote:
tlea wrote:yes using a42dl trans with MR2 flexplate. Decided on the blacktop just because of modern efi (reliability)


16V engines would be simpler, no vvt, no Japan only parts.

Are you a capable mechanic? Or would someone else be doing the work?

I'd like to think so, just no 4age experience. Here's my website TimLea.com

;)

I've owned a few Mustangs(70 SCJ Mach1), and a couple of Shelbys too... (66 GT350-H, and a 67 GT500)

Ok, so you have experience, and ability. The "7"AGE is a none factory built engine using the Toyota 7AFE, and installing the 4AG head on it. The advantage to this is you are adding 200cc of size, and it is all torque boosting stroke (77mm to 85.5mm). The difference in the blocks is a bit more room for the crank, and a taller deck, but the block is fully capable of putting the performance 4AG head on it. You will need to do some research into timing belt (a few options), and which oil pump you want to use. One downside to this engine is as this wasn't a factory option, so there isn't a complete timing belt cover available.

You want the factory service manual for the 4AG engine - http://files.aeu86.org/manuals/4A-GEManual.pdf

Here is the complete Blacktop manual as well(near the bottom of the page)- https://www.aeu86.org/technical/ae86-manuals/

I've had this thought before (coupling a 4AGE and the A42DL). The first thing I'd look into is how high the A42DL can prolong shifts for.... If you can't get it to hold shift points on WOT to 7500, or more, then it may be better to utilize an engine that makes most of its power lower in the rpm band.
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

tlea
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby tlea » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:21 pm

I might have gone that route had I known more at the time but already have blacktop motor ready to go. Seemed good choice, plenty of parts available and chassis conversion items

tlea
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby tlea » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:38 pm

Also while we are on subject of a42dl I need some parts if anybody has parts car. I need dipstick, upper portion of dipstick tube and floor shifter. No cars in yards anywhere in the Northeast us
Thanks

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jondee86
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Re: conversion revisited

Postby jondee86 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:04 pm

Now that I know you are mating a RWD gearbox with FWD engine I may
be able to be a bit more helpful. The 20V starter normally mounts under
the intake manifold, while the auto trans mounts to an engine that has
the starter on the exhaust side. That means your starter will be on the
exhaust side of the engine as the starter bolts to the bellhousing, or at
least it does on the manual transmission.

The 20V starter has a different output flange to the 4AC starter and will
not bolt up. However, a starter from an AE86 or 4AC or a later AE92 (16V)
should bolt up. Making a few assumptions based on manual transmissions
here as I don't have a 4AC auto trans for comparisons.

Image

Pic for reference... AE86 on the left and AE101 (20V) on the right.

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.