Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby dr.occa » Thu May 23, 2013 6:39 pm

ogdougynutty wrote:Proud to say that my Carbed 4age is now apart of the Megajolt Community


Very cool man. How do you have it setup?

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby ogdougynutty » Fri May 24, 2013 10:09 am

Here you go

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Mounted the EDIS in the same spot where my old coil use to sit. And excuse the wiring mess, im picking up loom today.
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Just a little video of it running
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Sun May 26, 2013 1:04 pm

Has anyone else seen these? T3 makes machined aluminum Mikuni PHH jet covers! $30/pair, I think I'll have to get them simply because it's awesome that T3 makes them!
https://technotoytuning.com/universal/p ... -phh-carbs

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby 808AE86inAZ » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:45 am

TTT!!!

dr.occa wrote:If you prefer to stick with MSD than I highly recommend the programmable 6AL 2.


I got one and I luv it so far! I've got the dizzy locked out at 35deg w/ max timing 30deg (so I could add another 5deg if I want to.) I've got the timing dialed back to 10deg from 0-1000rpm, ramping up to 30deg by 4500rpm and staying there to redline (8500rpm). Opinions? Recommendations? Anybody?

dr.occa wrote:... unless the 6AL-2 has inputs/outputs for additional controls a momentary switch ...


Not that I've seen, it's only got provisions for launch retard and burn out retard 12v inputs. I haven't got to play with it too much yet, I'm still in the tuning stage tho. I just ordered a couple sets of bigger idles cuz she falls flat on her face on a snap throttle.
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby dr.occa » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:00 am

carbd7age wrote:Has anyone else seen these? T3 makes machined aluminum Mikuni PHH jet covers! $30/pair, I think I'll have to get them simply because it's awesome that T3 makes them!
https://technotoytuning.com/universal/p ... -phh-carbs

Image
Image



Yeah, I saw those when he put them out. My personal preference would have been having Gabriel's T3 logo smaller - equivalent to the font size of the original Solex/Mikuni logos.

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:35 am

Hey gang, my engine starts and runs! I had to rebuild the carbs, one accelerator pump was assembled upside-down, and therefore did not pump. So I got some kits and redid them. It fires up almost right away, like a real car! I'm fiddling with the idle right now, it stumbles through the revs, but I left the pilot screws all the way in; I need to adjust them. The only info I can find about adjusting the pilot screw is "tighten, then back the specified number of turns". Which is all well and good, but WHAT IS THE SPECIFIED NUMBER OF TURNS!??! I found a parts list that says 1 turn for 40's and 1&1/8th for 44's. Let's try one turn and see what happens....
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:01 am

I went one turn out on the pilots and that helped. The idle is rough and low, I need to adjust it up. But it dies as soon as I hit the gas pedal. What's the deal with that?
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby dr.occa » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:46 pm

Actually, no more than 2.5 turns out total from seating. They should never be seated tightly. They should always only be seated until you get a some resistance. If you tighten them down as you would a bolt or nut for your intake manifold or lug nuts then you've beveled the tips and they'll need to be replaced.

No more than 2.5 turns out. If you have to go pass 2.5 to get it to idle then your pilots are too small. The converse of that is less than 2 than they're too big.

They must be first synch'd and your idle speed set: turn in the idle speed screw (the one that pushes down on the throttle lever of the carb(s)) in until it just touches the throttle lever. As soon as it does, from there turn it in one full turn. No more than 1.5. Sync your carbs: sync to the one with the lowest vacuum signal.

From there set your idle mixture and determine idle jet sizes.

40 accel pumps are pretty much right on for the 4AGE.

Have your timing set between 10-15 degrees at idle.

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:39 am

Awesome thanks Jonas! I never had them tight tight, just finger tight until they touched the bottom. I've seen them overtightened and punched through the carb shell. I'll go try that stuff. I need a manometer....
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby dr.occa » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:29 am

carbd7age wrote:Awesome thanks Jonas! I never had them tight tight, just finger tight until they touched the bottom. I've seen them overtightened and punched through the carb shell. I'll go try that stuff. I need a manometer....


I know what you mean - I've seen them seized up in them where the area around the ports were bulged outwards. Looks like whoever owned them proved who was boss :P. Manometers and/or a Unisyn should be in every gear head's tool box in my opinion ;). Just a friendly reminder for anyone reading this - test either 1 & 3 or 2 & 4 with the Manometer or Unisyn when syncing. You'll get all turned around and frustrated if you try to do all four unless you're running a set of bike carbs. Then you'll need to measure each carb.

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:59 am

Well let's talk syncing while we're at it. I think the airflow syncometer would be the easiest to use, since I don't have a vacuum port on each individual barrel. Also, what do I adjust, I assume the pilot screw?
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby dr.occa » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:37 pm

The idle SPEED screw is what you want to affect changes to. All your idle mixture screws should be turned out the same across the board.

You set the carb that reads the highest to the one that reads the lowest.

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:11 pm

Idle mixture screw = pilot screw? The ones at the very back of the carb?
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby 808AE86inAZ » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:04 am

^ ^ ^ yes. I know u don't have Weber's but here's what I used. Helps when u know what ur trying to adjust n trying to achieve. Good luck!

http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tech/dcoe_adjustment_layout_typical_i.htm
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:02 pm

Ok cool. Hopefully i'll get some time this weekend to mess with it some more.
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby allencr » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:11 am

carbd7age wrote: ...what do I adjust, I assume the pilot screw?

No. You're looking for the same air flow thru each, this is the butterfly/throttle plate on each throat, so it is matching the left to right throat on each carb to each other, then matching the left carb to the right carb with the linkage that's between them.
Also, this is done AFTER you know that the engine is in otherwise good shape, compressions equal & valve lash OK & good ignition, no use at all chasing a non-carb caused problem thru the carburetor!
The synchronization is very important for getting a smooth idle with all cylinders getting an equal mixture, otherwise it matters little to none at speeds above idle.
//
Just listen the hiss from each throat with a piece of hose to your ear at idle, placing it at the same position on each one, it'll be pretty distinctive/obvious. That's all. There's zero need for any tool if you get a piece of the neighbor's garden hose with a machete.

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:31 pm

Ok Allen, engine should be good, it's all new after all lol. I'll mess with it this weekend and post some progress.
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:26 pm

Messed with it today, made things worse. :x Spins, no crank. It started (just) the other day without using the starter system. Maybe I should hook that back up? I also checked all my timing again; found my distributor is leaking through the bearing....fabulous. :| All the timing looks spot on, even though it's a 7A and therefore weird.
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby dr.occa » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:24 pm

carbd7, what are all your jettings? Post a link to 'em if you already listed them.

I would start with jets from a 3TC setup if you haven't already:
idles: 50-55
airs: 190
mains: 145
pumps: 40

Ignore this if you're already past this point.

The choke/starter system springs should be static, pulling the discs ccw.

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:43 pm

The pics aren't as legible as I hoped, I'll get them written down soon. I should start with 3TC, I never thought of that lol.
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=54562&page=15

And yes the starter discs are pulled CCW.
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby dr.occa » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:17 pm

Okay, 57.5 is pretty big for a 1.8. I'd definitely start with say 52.5 or 55s and 190 airs. I'd even start with 50s.

What's your fuel pressure look like?

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:29 pm

I did post the numbers on the carb thread on the old board, let's see what we have:
Image

I know they're impossible to read, but I can zoom in on my phone better than I can see in real life lolzzz. The big jets on the left both say 200 on the inner jet and 8 on the outter thing, and the two littler ones say 57.5
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:31 pm

Fuel pressure is good, I have a gauge mounted directly before the rear carb, with a T fitting going to the front, I reads between 2.9-4ish PSI.
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby dr.occa » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:18 pm

3.5 psi is plenty. Come down on those idle jets some and try 190s for your airs on the mains instead of 200s.

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:16 am

Ok, will do....eventually lol.
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby carbd7age » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:02 am

Doc I pulled my jets today to see exactly what sizes I have:
Pilot: 57.5
Main air: 200
Jet block: 8
Bleed pipe: only mark is a T, it has 8 holes
Main jet: 160

I emailed Todd Walrich at Wolf Creek Racing and he said he thought my pilots sound too small, that a 40 carb likes a 60 or 62.5 jet. He told me to turn my pilot screws out 1.5 turns and then review the pilot circuit and accelerator pump circuit sections in the manual because my problem should be somewhere in there.
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby dr.occa » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:20 pm

Let's take this to PM Eric.

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby Phil Bradshaw » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:50 pm

All,

Apologies for the newbie questions. I am well versed in EFI but am looking at going old school with a possible future Ford 105E Anglia 4AGE conversion on carbs. Plan is to grab the hardware as the opportunity comes up at the right price as have too many other projects already. I have had a major google of 4AGE/carbs but keep going around in circles.

I am about to acquire a pair of Weber 40DCOEs with I think 32mm chokes; not sure on the jets etc. I am about to grab a T50 but have yet to get an engine. Car will be for road use and will weigh about 800kg all up. Questions:
1. Which 16 valve engine is best for carbs? Aim is to run it stock internally. It will be JDM sourced. I like the idea of a big port so i can fit an AE86 intake and EFI etc if it all gets too hard, but conversely a friend had a smallport working really well on carbs years ago, and odds are I will get a red top in better condition used - trying to avoid a rebuild.
2. Any thoughts on best intake manifold to buy and where from? I am in New Zealand but shipping shouldn't be too bad.
3. I am planning to use standard distributor and a hyperpak from www.erd.co.nz to make it work - any experiences with these?
4. Any views on jets/chokes/emulsions etc for stock engines?
5. I like the idea of running an EFI fuel pump but using that adjustable regulator mentioned earlier in this thread that can regualte between 3-65 or so PSI - any thoughts on that unit?
6. Anything else I should be aware of?

Cheers

Phil
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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby dr.occa » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:50 pm

Phil, your name sounds so familiar.

I'd back you up on the small port / hi comp motor choice.

30-32mm chokes is pretty much spot on for a stock 16v (preferrably 30).

I've heard a few people mention the ER&D Hyperpak so sounds like that's solved for you.

Ball park jettings are as follows:
idle/pilots: 45f9
mains/secondaries: 120
air correctors: 170
pump jets: 40
emulsion tubes: F11/F15/F9/F16 (F16 are most commonly used IIRC)

Fuel pressure: 3.5psi max

I personally advise against using the stock efi pump UNLESS you maybe use it to feed a surge tank and then a low pressure pump to pull from the surge tank to feed your carbs. I know it's usually the other way around for efi setups. At least this way, you may not need to pull a good working efi pump from the tank. It'll still need to be 3/8" lines from the fuel supply to the carbs and from the carbs back to the surge tank (bypass setup here obviously).

There should be better off the line and throttle response with the small port over the large port. I haven't actually done a comparison between the 40 dcoe intake port and that of the large port. If the larger port is bigger than the 40 dcoe ports than it's a given you lose in velocity and fuel/air atomization to the small port.

If you would like to go back to EFI by mounting the large port, rwd intake, it'll still be better by using a large to small adapter. That sudden venturi affect will naturally occur when the intake charge makes that transition from the large ports to the small ports at the adapter - better low/mid range response.

Hope some of this info is of use.

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Re: Carbureting the 4AGE essentials

Postby Phil Bradshaw » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am

Thanks for that - really appreciate your opinion and advice. Phil

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