Carbureting the 4AGE essentials
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:22 am
CARBED 4AGE GROCERY LIST ESSENTIALS
This is not an exhaustive list in that I will not include ALL the options for specific components as that would then nullify this post as being entitled "essentials". I leave the customizations to the individual(s)
1. Carb(s): dual sidedraughts, dual down draughts, single down draft 4 barrel/ 2 barrel
2. Intake Manifold for mounting your carb(s) of choice to the 4AGE head
3. HVLP (high-volume low-pressure) Electric Fuel Pump:
Webers - no more than 4 lbs of delivery
Mikuni's no more than 3.5 lbs of delivery
recommendations: carter 4070 or holley's red low pressure electric fuel pump
in-tank option e-fuel pumps: bosch 69476/carter P70250/airtex e8188
i highly advise against a mechanical fuel pump
4. Adjustable Low Pressure FPR (fuel pressure regulator) and FP Gauge (liquid filled, low increment recommended) e.g. Holley 12-408 or Malpassi which can be had on ebay or other vendors easily found on the internet.
---September 19, 2010---
when using the low pressure, non-bypass fpr from holley mount your gauge in one of the 3/8npt OUT ports (a 3/8" to 1/8" npt adapter can be used just for starters when "skinning that cat") for more consistent pressure reading.
---March 30, 2011---
**For those wanting to run the GTS factory fuel pump, the Aeromotive 13301 return fuel pressure regulator would be ideal. It's adjustable from 3-65psi. Again, this is a RETURN STYLE fuel pressure regulator. (10/4/2012) - I cannot confirm that this will be a working and trouble free route but the parts for attempting this method is here mentioned for individual consideration.
---December 14, 2011---
Please note also that nothing smaller than 3/8"(= 6AN fittings) FUEL line should be used for fuel delivery.
---February 29, 2012---
I have to re-iterate: go no smaller than 3/8" fuel line all the way from the tank -> fuel pump -> fpr -> carbs.
If you're going with a bypass fpr type maintain a 3/8" line for delivery and return. NO SMALLER.
**Also, do not attempt to use the Carter (P)4070 electric fuel pump with a bypass type regulator as the pump itself is already internally bypassed to maintain a no-higher-than 6-7psi amount of pressure in open flow. The carters should be coupled with a deadhead/dead-head type fpr. The inverse is also true: do not use a non-bypassed type electric fuel pump with a deadhead/dead-head fpr but only w/ a bypass type.
5. Throttle Linkage
6. Appropriate means of plugging the fuel injector ports (e.g. freeze plugs)
7. Corrective Fuel & Air Jets or a vendor that you can easily obtain them from
8. For spark please see the "IGNITION OPTIONS FOR CARBED 4AGE ENTHUSIASTS" section.
IGNITION OPTIONS FOR CARBED 4AGE ENTHUSIASTS
1. Use the stock blue top 4AGE distributor locked out at the timing of your choosing.
2. Use the stock blue top 4AGE distributor w/ the programmable MSD 6AL 2 p/n: 6421 or the Digital programmable 6AL-2 p/n: 6530. If you plan to use either the 6A or 6AL you'll need MSD p/n 8980/8981 timing curve "computers" which have been discontinued - to use the stock tach you will need to use MSD's p/n 8920 tach/fuel adapter(SR5) NOT the 8910EIS or 8910 which is intended for using the 6A/L in a fuel injected environment. The 8920 is for the magnetic pick-up leads that are used from the Blue Top Distributor. If using an aftermarket Tach then the 8920 is not necessary.
note* - the 8980 is a fixed timing curve. this means you would set your distributor timing at your intended full advance timing. the 8980 will retard it by 20° for your idle timing and max out at 20 degrees full advance by 3000 rpm.
note** - the 8981 is a "programmable" timing curve unit. it's still based on the same design of the 8980 BUT you get to dictate when timing advance starts and ends in your rpm range.
Unfortunately, both the 8980 & 8981 have been discontinued. Finding them 2nd hand are your best options for acquiring them.
3. Use the 4K distributor from a starlet. It will need to be adapted to mount up to the 4AGE head. You will also need the gear from a 4AGE distributor to replace the 4K's in order for it to spin off of the 4AGE exhaust cam. Here's an example of an adapter kit.
4. IDS w/ megasquirt and crank tooth wheel and sensor. electromotive and other companies can provide you with good IDS setups.
MEGAJOLT LITE JR is another option which uses EDIS and your option of TPS or MAP. MEGAJOLT LITE JR does not allow for both simultaneously as of the posting of this thread. I've included this after taking a little bit of "heat" from an AEU86.ORG member about using the stock ECU for ignition which I personally advise against only because with the amount of work put into "rigging" it up you can easily go megajolt lite and have more programmable control.
edit: added 12/27/23
MICROSQUIRT / MICROSQUIRT AMP'D - a Megasquirt offshoot that allows for dedicated fuel or ignition control. Tunerstudio is the official tuning software for the family line of Megasquirt stand-alones. Microsquirt will allow for hall effect, optical, trigger wheel for waste spark fire and the upgraded Microsquirt Amp'd version now allows for combining crank and cam signals for sequential fire. Both versions will work with either distributor or your choice of individual coil fire. A very versatile option and w/ the Tunerstudio software, you're able to run the software on a compact Raspberry Pi that can be mounted in vehicle. This would then allow for a custom gauge cluster inspired by your own imagination (click here for an example). You can easily move over to fuel injection later if you choose w/ just the addition of injector connectors.
SILICON CHIPS - PROGRAMMABLE IGNITION SYSTEM - don't know much about it but you can read up on its details here. i have no experience with it what-so-ever just so you know.
POWER ARC - again, not familiar enough with the product but there has been a growing number
ELECTROMOTIVE - XDI - another well known performance ignition system but using a "60-minus-2 tooth crank trigger wheel" for higher ignition definition ("...offering spark accuracy of ¼ degree of crankshaft rotation") and on the pricey side. still a great waste-spark choice with a programmable timing curve.
edit: added 12/27/23
My own personal history with carb'd ignition is w/ locked out full timing w/ the factory 4AG distributor, the MSD route, an adapted 4K distributor, Megajolt Lite Jr (w/ dual EDIS modules combined w/ Coil on Plugs from the 1MZFE) and I've since settled on Microsquirt (combined w/ Coil on Plugs from a GSXR 750 in waste spark and soon to be AMP'd for sequential ignition).
other suggestions are welcome. i added this post in order to facilitate searches for other members who are interested.
This is not an exhaustive list in that I will not include ALL the options for specific components as that would then nullify this post as being entitled "essentials". I leave the customizations to the individual(s)
1. Carb(s): dual sidedraughts, dual down draughts, single down draft 4 barrel/ 2 barrel
2. Intake Manifold for mounting your carb(s) of choice to the 4AGE head
3. HVLP (high-volume low-pressure) Electric Fuel Pump:
Webers - no more than 4 lbs of delivery
Mikuni's no more than 3.5 lbs of delivery
recommendations: carter 4070 or holley's red low pressure electric fuel pump
in-tank option e-fuel pumps: bosch 69476/carter P70250/airtex e8188
i highly advise against a mechanical fuel pump
4. Adjustable Low Pressure FPR (fuel pressure regulator) and FP Gauge (liquid filled, low increment recommended) e.g. Holley 12-408 or Malpassi which can be had on ebay or other vendors easily found on the internet.
---September 19, 2010---
when using the low pressure, non-bypass fpr from holley mount your gauge in one of the 3/8npt OUT ports (a 3/8" to 1/8" npt adapter can be used just for starters when "skinning that cat") for more consistent pressure reading.
---March 30, 2011---
**For those wanting to run the GTS factory fuel pump, the Aeromotive 13301 return fuel pressure regulator would be ideal. It's adjustable from 3-65psi. Again, this is a RETURN STYLE fuel pressure regulator. (10/4/2012) - I cannot confirm that this will be a working and trouble free route but the parts for attempting this method is here mentioned for individual consideration.
---December 14, 2011---
Please note also that nothing smaller than 3/8"(= 6AN fittings) FUEL line should be used for fuel delivery.
---February 29, 2012---
I have to re-iterate: go no smaller than 3/8" fuel line all the way from the tank -> fuel pump -> fpr -> carbs.
If you're going with a bypass fpr type maintain a 3/8" line for delivery and return. NO SMALLER.
**Also, do not attempt to use the Carter (P)4070 electric fuel pump with a bypass type regulator as the pump itself is already internally bypassed to maintain a no-higher-than 6-7psi amount of pressure in open flow. The carters should be coupled with a deadhead/dead-head type fpr. The inverse is also true: do not use a non-bypassed type electric fuel pump with a deadhead/dead-head fpr but only w/ a bypass type.
5. Throttle Linkage
6. Appropriate means of plugging the fuel injector ports (e.g. freeze plugs)
7. Corrective Fuel & Air Jets or a vendor that you can easily obtain them from
8. For spark please see the "IGNITION OPTIONS FOR CARBED 4AGE ENTHUSIASTS" section.
IGNITION OPTIONS FOR CARBED 4AGE ENTHUSIASTS
1. Use the stock blue top 4AGE distributor locked out at the timing of your choosing.
2. Use the stock blue top 4AGE distributor w/ the programmable MSD 6AL 2 p/n: 6421 or the Digital programmable 6AL-2 p/n: 6530. If you plan to use either the 6A or 6AL you'll need MSD p/n 8980/8981 timing curve "computers" which have been discontinued - to use the stock tach you will need to use MSD's p/n 8920 tach/fuel adapter(SR5) NOT the 8910EIS or 8910 which is intended for using the 6A/L in a fuel injected environment. The 8920 is for the magnetic pick-up leads that are used from the Blue Top Distributor. If using an aftermarket Tach then the 8920 is not necessary.
note* - the 8980 is a fixed timing curve. this means you would set your distributor timing at your intended full advance timing. the 8980 will retard it by 20° for your idle timing and max out at 20 degrees full advance by 3000 rpm.
note** - the 8981 is a "programmable" timing curve unit. it's still based on the same design of the 8980 BUT you get to dictate when timing advance starts and ends in your rpm range.
Unfortunately, both the 8980 & 8981 have been discontinued. Finding them 2nd hand are your best options for acquiring them.
3. Use the 4K distributor from a starlet. It will need to be adapted to mount up to the 4AGE head. You will also need the gear from a 4AGE distributor to replace the 4K's in order for it to spin off of the 4AGE exhaust cam. Here's an example of an adapter kit.
4. IDS w/ megasquirt and crank tooth wheel and sensor. electromotive and other companies can provide you with good IDS setups.
MEGAJOLT LITE JR is another option which uses EDIS and your option of TPS or MAP. MEGAJOLT LITE JR does not allow for both simultaneously as of the posting of this thread. I've included this after taking a little bit of "heat" from an AEU86.ORG member about using the stock ECU for ignition which I personally advise against only because with the amount of work put into "rigging" it up you can easily go megajolt lite and have more programmable control.
edit: added 12/27/23
MICROSQUIRT / MICROSQUIRT AMP'D - a Megasquirt offshoot that allows for dedicated fuel or ignition control. Tunerstudio is the official tuning software for the family line of Megasquirt stand-alones. Microsquirt will allow for hall effect, optical, trigger wheel for waste spark fire and the upgraded Microsquirt Amp'd version now allows for combining crank and cam signals for sequential fire. Both versions will work with either distributor or your choice of individual coil fire. A very versatile option and w/ the Tunerstudio software, you're able to run the software on a compact Raspberry Pi that can be mounted in vehicle. This would then allow for a custom gauge cluster inspired by your own imagination (click here for an example). You can easily move over to fuel injection later if you choose w/ just the addition of injector connectors.
SILICON CHIPS - PROGRAMMABLE IGNITION SYSTEM - don't know much about it but you can read up on its details here. i have no experience with it what-so-ever just so you know.
POWER ARC - again, not familiar enough with the product but there has been a growing number
ELECTROMOTIVE - XDI - another well known performance ignition system but using a "60-minus-2 tooth crank trigger wheel" for higher ignition definition ("...offering spark accuracy of ¼ degree of crankshaft rotation") and on the pricey side. still a great waste-spark choice with a programmable timing curve.
edit: added 12/27/23
My own personal history with carb'd ignition is w/ locked out full timing w/ the factory 4AG distributor, the MSD route, an adapted 4K distributor, Megajolt Lite Jr (w/ dual EDIS modules combined w/ Coil on Plugs from the 1MZFE) and I've since settled on Microsquirt (combined w/ Coil on Plugs from a GSXR 750 in waste spark and soon to be AMP'd for sequential ignition).
other suggestions are welcome. i added this post in order to facilitate searches for other members who are interested.