4age 16v shim retainer

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Mon May 04, 2015 3:39 pm

i have under bucket shims and no retainer to hold it, so where can i find this? thanks

yoshimitsuspeed
Club4AG MASTER
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:18 pm
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Mon May 04, 2015 5:27 pm

speedmaster wrote:i have under bucket shims and no retainer to hold it, so where can i find this? thanks



I don't understand what you are looking for.
The retainer holds the valve spring in place. The retainer has nothing to do with shim under buckets. You need the actual shim under bucket to be able to run the shim under shim.

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Mon May 04, 2015 5:33 pm

How do on hold the shims in place under the bucket?

User avatar
oldeskewltoy
Club4AG MASTER
Posts: 2180
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon May 04, 2015 5:58 pm

speedmaster wrote:How do on hold the shims in place under the bucket?


you need either the proper retainer to run shim under... the retainer holds the shim until the bucket is lowered...
Image


OR the shim fits over the valve stem and fits the valve stem like a tiny cap
Image
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Mon May 04, 2015 5:59 pm

So its a special valve spring retainer that I'm looking for?

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Mon May 04, 2015 6:05 pm

The shim is flat unlike 20v shim

yoshimitsuspeed
Club4AG MASTER
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:18 pm
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Mon May 04, 2015 8:45 pm

Oh I haven't seen that style before. In that case you would need a retainer like OST posted. No idea where to find something like that.

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Tue May 05, 2015 12:17 am

That's the problem. Thanks bro

totta crolla
Club4AG Pro
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:21 am
Location: Oxford U.K

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby totta crolla » Tue May 05, 2015 1:00 am

Ford Zetec E top hat shims fit but they need to be ground to size.
The bottom of the shim needs grinding so that it sits on the valve stem rather than the valve collets (keepers) and the top of the shim needs grinding to get the correct clearance.
http://www.burtonpower.com/shim-160-x-6 ... fz215.html

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Tue May 05, 2015 1:16 am

Wow thanks. I go have a look

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Tue May 05, 2015 2:30 am

totta crolla wrote:Ford Zetec E top hat shims fit but they need to be ground to size.
The bottom of the shim needs grinding so that it sits on the valve stem rather than the valve collets (keepers) and the top of the shim needs grinding to get the correct clearance.
http://www.burtonpower.com/shim-160-x-6 ... fz215.html

Wasnt what I was looking for. But thanks

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Tue May 05, 2015 2:31 am

uploadfromtaptalk1430818276426.jpg



Something like this

totta crolla
Club4AG Pro
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:21 am
Location: Oxford U.K

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby totta crolla » Tue May 05, 2015 2:39 am

Are those your actual parts ?
If so then these people can supply a 'button' type shim that fits inside the spring retainer:
http://www.arrowprecision.com/14-shims

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Tue May 05, 2015 6:20 am

totta crolla wrote:Are those your actual parts ?
If so then these people can supply a 'button' type shim that fits inside the spring retainer:
http://www.arrowprecision.com/14-shims



this is the actual thing

Image

totta crolla
Club4AG Pro
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:21 am
Location: Oxford U.K

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby totta crolla » Tue May 05, 2015 12:11 pm

In my opinion you would be better off just using the top hat type shims, I use them and have had no issues whatsoever.
The shims you already have are likely to need grinding to fit and on top of that you will still need to source the 16 spring caps.
Any head that those cams are fitted into will need further machining as the lobes will not clear the head casting.

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Tue May 05, 2015 9:23 pm

totta crolla wrote:In my opinion you would be better off just using the top hat type shims, I use them and have had no issues whatsoever.
The shims you already have are likely to need grinding to fit and on top of that you will still need to source the 16 spring caps.
Any head that those cams are fitted into will need further machining as the lobes will not clear the head casting.


the shims that like the one from 20v?

totta crolla
Club4AG Pro
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:21 am
Location: Oxford U.K

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby totta crolla » Wed May 06, 2015 12:03 am

The grey part in the picture posted by OST above:
http://www.maruhamotors.co.jp/parts/05060690.jpg

Fit all of your followers without shims, fit your cams, measure the gap, deduct the clearance required then order them pre-ground.
The caveat to this is that there is a 'pad' on the under side of your followers, can you post up a picture of the inside of one of your followers ?

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Wed May 06, 2015 5:35 am

totta crolla wrote:The grey part in the picture posted by OST above:
http://www.maruhamotors.co.jp/parts/05060690.jpg

Fit all of your followers without shims, fit your cams, measure the gap, deduct the clearance required then order them pre-ground.
The caveat to this is that there is a 'pad' on the under side of your followers, can you post up a picture of the inside of one of your followers ?

uploadfromtaptalk1430915720416.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1430915720416.jpg (52.57 KiB) Viewed 20047 times

totta crolla
Club4AG Pro
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:21 am
Location: Oxford U.K

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby totta crolla » Wed May 06, 2015 8:42 am

They look a lot like my followers and if the pad thickness is the same on all of them you are probably good to go.
Looking at the link below you can find both top hat adjusters for 20v engine and shimless buckets with varying thickness pads for adjustment.
Check to see if your pads are all the same thickness, if they are different thicknesses then you probably have a set similar to those pictured here:
http://www.k1motor.net/AE101%20AE111%20TRD.htm

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Wed May 06, 2015 3:52 pm

oldeskewltoy wrote:
speedmaster wrote:How do on hold the shims in place under the bucket?


you need either the proper retainer to run shim under... the retainer holds the shim until the bucket is lowered...
Image


OR the shim fits over the valve stem and fits the valve stem like a tiny cap
Image



any idea where to get such retainer?

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Wed May 06, 2015 3:53 pm

totta crolla wrote:They look a lot like my followers and if the pad thickness is the same on all of them you are probably good to go.
Looking at the link below you can find both top hat adjusters for 20v engine and shimless buckets with varying thickness pads for adjustment.
Check to see if your pads are all the same thickness, if they are different thicknesses then you probably have a set similar to those pictured here:
http://www.k1motor.net/AE101%20AE111%20TRD.htm



my problem is to hold the shims under the bucket

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Wed May 06, 2015 4:09 pm

totta crolla wrote:They look a lot like my followers and if the pad thickness is the same on all of them you are probably good to go.
Looking at the link below you can find both top hat adjusters for 20v engine and shimless buckets with varying thickness pads for adjustment.
Check to see if your pads are all the same thickness, if they are different thicknesses then you probably have a set similar to those pictured here:
http://www.k1motor.net/AE101%20AE111%20TRD.htm


good to go as in without using the shims?

User avatar
oldeskewltoy
Club4AG MASTER
Posts: 2180
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed May 06, 2015 5:26 pm

you may need to have them made....???

I'd check around before that... call Supertech, SI, Ferrea... find out if they have the retainers you need....
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Thu May 07, 2015 5:40 am

oldeskewltoy wrote:you may need to have them made....???

I'd check around before that... call Supertech, SI, Ferrea... find out if they have the retainers you need....



would i be better off wit 1szfe lifters?

jdm86gtz
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:13 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby jdm86gtz » Thu May 07, 2015 5:46 am

speedmaster wrote:
oldeskewltoy wrote:you may need to have them made....???

I'd check around before that... call Supertech, SI, Ferrea... find out if they have the retainers you need....



would i be better off wit 1szfe lifters?


I was going to suggest the 1SZ buckets
http://club4ag.com/tech-data/valve-lift ... 16v-4a-ge/

Or Catcams
http://www.catcams.com/engines/camshaft-setup.aspx

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Thu May 07, 2015 5:47 am

jdm86gtz wrote:
speedmaster wrote:
oldeskewltoy wrote:you may need to have them made....???

I'd check around before that... call Supertech, SI, Ferrea... find out if they have the retainers you need....



would i be better off wit 1szfe lifters?


I was going to suggest the 1SZ buckets
http://club4ag.com/tech-data/valve-lift ... 16v-4a-ge/

Or Catcams
http://www.catcams.com/engines/camshaft-setup.aspx



those lifters are hard to come by

totta crolla
Club4AG Pro
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:21 am
Location: Oxford U.K

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby totta crolla » Thu May 07, 2015 6:22 am

You may already have 1SZ buckets but you need to measure the thickness from the top of the bucket to the underside pad.
If some of the measurements are different then the chances are you have 1SZ buckets or similar.
If you have 1SZ buckets all you need to do is install the correct sized ones on top of the valve, no extra shims are necessary.

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Thu May 07, 2015 7:03 am

totta crolla wrote:You may already have 1SZ buckets but you need to measure the thickness from the top of the bucket to the underside pad.
If some of the measurements are different then the chances are you have 1SZ buckets or similar.
If you have 1SZ buckets all you need to do is install the correct sized ones on top of the valve, no extra shims are necessary.

Just the clearance issue. But the 1sz lifters are not easy to find

User avatar
oldeskewltoy
Club4AG MASTER
Posts: 2180
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu May 07, 2015 8:39 am

speedmaster wrote:
totta crolla wrote:You may already have 1SZ buckets but you need to measure the thickness from the top of the bucket to the underside pad.
If some of the measurements are different then the chances are you have 1SZ buckets or similar.
If you have 1SZ buckets all you need to do is install the correct sized ones on top of the valve, no extra shims are necessary.

Just the clearance issue. But the 1sz lifters are not easy to find


quite true.... very tough to acquire... a sizing set is recommended, this is 8 of the thinnest 13751-23030, and then checking the clearances and ordering the correct set based on repeatable accurate measurements. I went through this in OST-026 - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10783
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

User avatar
speedmaster
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Malaysia and Brunei
Contact:

Re: 4age 16v shim retainer

Postby speedmaster » Thu May 07, 2015 8:41 am

Maybe try asking supertech if they have such retainer. It's a waste not to use the toda shims