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4age Starter issues

Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:58 am
by saiGone
Has anyone had their solenoid ping nice and loud, but the starter motor not turn over?

4age starter- Starts up right away on autozone test bench.

Pulled all ground wires and sanded off corrosion. sanded contact points on body and block etc.

Brand new battery. (Advanced auto Gold - stronger one)



Im stumped

Re: 4age Starter issues

Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:46 am
by jondee86
Run a test wire directly from the battery positive, and touch it briefly to
the starter solenoid terminal. A jumper cable works for this :) If the starter
cranks, then you have an excessive voltage drop in the starter solenoid wire.
One cure is to run a permanent wire directly from the battery positive
terminal to a relay, and from the relay to the solenoid terminal. Use the
existing starter solenoid (from the ignition switch) to trigger the relay.

Cheers... jondee86

Re: 4age Starter issues

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 2:18 pm
by saiGone
So basically it would be creating a solenoid for the solenoid kinda?

Re: 4age Starter issues

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:17 pm
by jondee86
My bad... I should have typed... use the existing starter solenoid wire
(from the ignition switch) to trigger the relay. Its a bit of a kludge, but if the
starter wire from the ignition switch is not delivering a strong 12V to the
solenoid because of high resistance, adding the relay will reduce the current
draw (and voltage drop). That should allow you to start the car using the
keyswitch without digging into the harness to find/replace whatever is causing
the voltage drop.

But do the test wire thing first, in case there is some other problem.

Cheers... jondee86

Re: 4age Starter issues

Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 9:59 am
by saiGone
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10 ... =2&theater

Check this out, New power hard wire and ground strap.
Also opened it up and cleaned the leads.

It only pops out and doesn't turn.

Re: 4age Starter issues

Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:25 pm
by Rogue-AE95
saiGone wrote:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10101784810277946&set=vb.25522585&type=2&theater

Check this out, New power hard wire and ground strap.
Also opened it up and cleaned the leads.

It only pops out and doesn't turn.


I had that same problem ^ recently with my starter. Different engine & model, but same engine family (4A-FE). I'm not sure how I "fixed" my problem, but you can see all the work I did to rebuild it here. It seems like the bearings are bad, since the gear is popping out but not turning. On mine, the bearings were fine. And this was with two starters that I have. But I only did the overhaul of that one, including the contacts.

I'd also like to know what the real problem is since I never really figured out what was wrong and what fixed it.

Re: 4age Starter issues

Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 5:51 pm
by jondee86
The video does not make it clear, but I assume that the fat starter
wire from the battery was connected to the bolted starter terminal,
and the earth strap was bolted to some other part of the starter frame ?

The most common reason for a starter not spinning is the brushes
getting worn down to the point where they lose contact with the
commutator. Quite often a sharp crack with a small hammer or the
head of a 12" Crescent spanner on the outside of the starter body, will
jar the brushes enough to move a fraction and make contact with the
commuutator. Then you will get a few starts before the problem
happens again.

Fix is to have the starter rebuilt with new brushes.

Cheers... jondee86

Re: 4age Starter issues

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:56 pm
by Rogue-AE95
I had measured the thickness of the brushes during my rebuild, and they were well within specs. I also cleaned (tedious job) the commutator of all material from between the grooves. All per the FSM...

Re: 4age Starter issues

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:40 pm
by jondee86
How does it work ? The solenoid is energised by 12V supplied thru
the skinny wire to the spade connector terminal. The solenoid plunger
pulls in and does two things... (a) it kicks the starter pinion gear out
and into engagement with the starter ring gear, and (b) it closes the
contacts that energise the starter motor itself.

Image

So the solenoid kicks the pinion gear out, but it will not spin unless
the starter motor itself is energised and spinning. If you have made
sure the brushes are making good contact with the commutator, and
the commutator insulators are trimmed down to below the surface of
the copper, the starter should turn when it gets solid 12V from the
fat wire. The starter grounds thru its frame, so it has to be bolted to
the engine, and there has to be a good ground connection from the
engine to the frame, and from the frame to the battery negative.

If all that is good and it don't turn, then your starter is toast :)

Cheers... jondee86

PS: Check the contact points in the solenoid before you chuck the
starter out. Arcing at the contacts can build up crusty crud and stop
the starter motor getting enough current. You should be able to clean
them up, or replace them.

Re: 4age Starter issues

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 1:06 pm
by saiGone
I sold an extra honda motor i had in my garage, low and behold, an extra 4A starter was laying behind it!

Lol when I'm back in town i will swap starters, and rebuild this one as a backup

Image

Re: 4age Starter issues

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:02 am
by paseobeater
my 20v do the exact same things. heard the solenoid and then.... wait a few second with the switch in start and it starts. sometime it take a couple shot. But recently it happen only once a month and I'm totally clueless i've check the wiring, the contacts in the starter, change the solenoid and still acting funny a couple day when she want :?:

Re: 4age Starter issues

Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:00 am
by saiGone
Ran my power wire straight to the battery and a new wire for the trigger. Engine turns over correctly now! Now I'm getting no fuel.

My fuel pump bracket leads are broken and barley soldierd on. Looking for a new one