cam help

[supo4]

hey guys i have a 4age 16v with graduated cam gears on it and i want to know should i just adjust the gears or should i get a camshaft?

the motor is pretty much stock
ive also used the search bar and i cant seem to find what i need so maybe im just bad at searching

[totta crolla]

Stock cams generally = stock timing but have a read here:
http://club4ag.com/faq_and_tech_pages/4 ... _story.htm
(If you don't want to read the whole thing the interesting timing stuff is just over half way down)

[jondee86]

As said above, if you are running factory cams on a factory stock
engine, you won't do any better than the factory cam timing. Toyota
engineers went to a lot of trouble to find the best timing for the
engine. If you start messing with the cam timing, chances are that
the engine will not run as good and you will lose power.

Adjustable cam wheels are only needed if you modify the engine
with more compression and bigger cams. Then it's up to you to do
the cam tuning to get the best out of the engine

Cheers... jondee86

[burdickjp]

Adjustable cam wheels are only needed if you modify the engine
with more compression and bigger cams. Then it's up to you to do
the cam tuning to get the best out of the engine

Adjustable cam gears are necessary if the distance between the camshaft axis and crankshaft axis has changed, or if the cam timing requires adjustment. Open and closing timing is available for OEM cams, and cam cards come with aftermarket cams. Most aftermarket cams are set up to install with the correct timing with the OEM cam/crank axis distance.

Cam tuning can be expensive! If nothing's been changed, reinstall the OEM cam gears. No reason to include another point of failure.

[totta crolla]

Experience has proved to me that you can't trust the timing on after market cams when they used with standard cam pulleys.
Stock cams, especially Toyota ones can be relied upon to be accurate.

[supo4]

i would love to put the stock gears back on the car but i bought the car with the aftermarket ones along with a stupid huge radiator. the gears at by t3 so that gives me a little comfort i guess. my main thing is i drive this car a lot its not my daily but it is my stress reliever and i want just a little more power and im clueless its not like my mustang where i can throw performance parts at it no problem because is a 66 and i can make the thing run as long as i have fuel and fire. so in other words the computer intimidates me because i have no idea what it needs, wants, and what its limits are

[yoshimitsuspeed]

That's why you ask questions places like this.
The stock ECU can handle a bit without modification and a bit more if you know how to make it do what you want.
Just like with any car it's best to start with a budget and power/performance goals and try to find somewhere that those two best meet in the middle.
So what kind of budget and what do you want out of the motor?

[supo4]

my budget is about 1400 to 1500 and i would love to get 140 hp i dyno the car and i make around the 112 ph mark. i also understand im asking alot for not much money but i do want to put it to good use so my end goal would be 140 im not trying to make it a monster right off the shoot i want to learn the car as the car grow if thats not crazy talk

[oldeskewltoy]

my budget is about 1400 to 1500 and i would love to get 140 hp i dyno the car and i make around the 112 ph mark. i also understand im asking alot for not much money but i do want to put it to good use so my end goal would be 140 im not trying to make it a monster right off the shoot i want to learn the car as the car grow if thats not crazy talk

If you had the skills to do all the assembly.... you would still be $500 to $1000 too short. If you are paying someone to do the assembly... add another $250-$500

To get to 140hp you need to bump compression (pistons, along with block and head machining) you will also need a camshaft upgrade, a minimum of one step (to 256 type). Since you have the engine disassembled(for piston change), you might as well rebuild it all.

[supo4]

i can come up with the extra cash that was my budget for the rest of the year so i can go over and the only work that i would not do is the machining. could you maybe send me some links so i can find the parts and once again the computer what about that will in not go nuts me changing all of this

[yoshimitsuspeed]

IMO this is the best bang for the buck option.
http://www.matrixgarage.com/products/16 ... nd-pistons

The pistons are my design and specifically designed to work with that cam. They are also non interference with those cams which few others if any will be.
That customer made somewhere in the 145 WHP range without touching his ECU. It was running a little rich so he leaned it out and played with ignition timing before the dyno shown in that link. It wasn't necessary but it likely helped him achieve those numbers. It may have also been partially due to the motor being broken in a little more on that last dyno.

I would highly recommend you get a wideband so you can monitor AFRs but it may not even be necessary to change fueling.
It would also be smart to use some type of knock monitoring. This also depends on what fuel/octane you plan on using.

[supo4]

the only fuel i run is no ethanol 93 and ill defiantly look into it how would i go about tuning my ecu once i have everything im sure there is a link on this site somewhere

[yoshimitsuspeed]

the only fuel i run is no ethanol 93 and ill defiantly look into it how would i go about tuning my ecu once i have everything im sure there is a link on this site somewhere

Where are you located?
Octane is rated differently around the globe so we need to make sure that 93 means the same thing to me as it does to you.

[supo4]

Tennessee 93 is the highest octane around here other avgas or racing fuel both of those are 100 octane avgas just has lead in it

[supo4]

What about forced induction would that be out of the question it being a 16v

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Boost always gets my vote.
Your budget would be cutting it real tight even for a bare bones turbo conversion. That would be assuming you did all the work yourself, bought a used turbo and more affordable components and didn't touch the motor or change engine management.
Even then I would plan around $2k.You might be able to do it a little cheaper but it's better to set a realistic budget with a little padding. If you can't do all the work yourself the cost will rise rapidly.
With this setup 140+ WHP would be no problem as long as you are smart with tuning and monitoring.
It also sets you up on a great path for future growth. Engine management and good tuning could get you a good bit more. Some forged pistons in a 7 rib block and then the sky is pretty much the limit.
http://matrixgarage.com/content/yoshimi ... oing-4a-ge

[supo4]

See this seven rib, three rib, and long block what does all this mean

[yoshimitsuspeed]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=4age+3+rib+7+rib

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=longblock

[supo4]

yoshimitsuspeed after reading the mile long page u have on boosting 4age ive desided depending on the block i have because my car had a motor swap but to another 4age back in the 90s if it is a 3 rib hicomp pistons if a 7 rib turbo does this sound like a good idea

[yoshimitsuspeed]

yoshimitsuspeed after reading the mile long page u have on boosting 4age ive desided depending on the block i have because my car had a motor swap but to another 4age back in the 90s if it is a 3 rib hicomp pistons if a 7 rib turbo does this sound like a good idea

I have no idea what you just said.

[supo4]

My car has had a engine swap so im not sure what motor is in it a 7 rib or 3 rib. If it is a 3 rib I will put high compression pistons in it and a different camshaft. Now with that said if I have a seven rib motor I will give it forced induction and all of the necessary upgrades to do so because its a stronger block. I was asking if this sound like a good and safe plan or sjould injust boost the both of them regardless

[oldeskewltoy]

My car has had a engine swap so im not sure what motor is in it a 7 rib or 3 rib. If it is a 3 rib I will put high compression pistons in it and a different camshaft. Now with that said if I have a seven rib motor I will give it forced induction and all of the necessary upgrades to do so because its a stronger block. I was asking if this sound like a good and safe plan or sjould injust boost the both of them regardless

block strength has more to do with resisting rpm twist, then it has to do with holding a few pounds of boost. The 7 rib block is stronger because it is the basis of the Atlantic engines(twist to 10,000 rpm). Either block works fine for minimal boost(5-8#s), higher boost levels will require stronger pistons

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Pick the build based off what you want, not off what block you have.

Like OST said sane levels of boost are not particularly hard on rods, cranks or blocks so there would be no reason to make the decision as you have.

One of the best things about the 7 rib block with the 20/42 rotating assembly is that most aftermarket parts are designed for it.

If you go NA 3 rib Wiseco will be about your only shelf piston option and they aren't really ideal. Otherwise you will need to get a custom piston.
If you go 7 rib 20/42 there are a lot more piston options that are more affordable.

[supo4]

guy once again thanks a million you all rock. i want to turbo the car so looks like im going to turbo it. also i promise im not just going to slap a turbo on and hope for the best i will do it right.