20v bt not starting

[v33sonata]

1st let me say I dint know the flames were coming out unti lI just saw the vid. But got a tweeked wiring harness with COP conv. I'm getting fuel and now seeing the flames I am guessing spark as well. Any suggestions?

[Army Fork]

If you're running a COP conversion your also running wasted spark, which is why you're getting flames out the intake, the spark on one intake is firing before the fuel charge enters the chamber. Your timing is too advanced, it's not firing at TDC. You have to retard (Hopefully I'm using 'retard' and 'advance' in the proper way, sure I'll get corrected otherwise) the ignition timing by turning the dizzy.

This may have to do with how the coils on the COP's charge compared to how the normal 20V coil charges, which may be why it's not starting because the timing is wrong for the different charge time. You should be fine if you just adjust the timing.

[v33sonata]

If you're running a COP conversion your also running wasted spark, which is why you're getting flames out the intake, the spark on one intake is firing before the fuel charge enters the chamber. Your timing is too advanced, it's not firing at TDC. You have to retard (Hopefully I'm using 'retard' and 'advance' in the proper way, sure I'll get corrected otherwise) the ignition timing by turning the dizzy.

This may have to do with how the coils on the COP's charge compared to how the normal 20V coil charges, which may be why it's not starting because the timing is wrong for the different charge time. You should be fine if you just adjust the timing.

I was jsut messing with that and still nothing. However I am just moving and starting as I have no reffreance is to where its suposed to be

[Army Fork]

Well your timing is definitely off, but that could be masking other problems. Pull your plugs and make sure they're clean, check your wires and make sure that everything is connected correctly. You may not be firing all four plugs

[v33sonata]

Well your timing is definitely off, but that could be masking other problems. Pull your plugs and make sure they're clean, check your wires and make sure that everything is connected correctly. You may not be firing all four plugs

Nothing! I'm gonna check for spart today altho I am sure I am getting it. Does anyone have a timing belt diagram for the 20v BT?

[MisterJerk]

here's a link to morgan's DIY valve seal replacement on BT 20v.... The timing part is what you need.
http://www.shiftgearblog.com/2011/06/di ... e-20v.html


If i can find the link for the 20v engine FSM i will edit it in for you. here it is.... ignition section, IG-9
http://www.locost7.info/mirror/4age_blacktop.php

[xb_release_2]

My guess is timing is off. The stock 20v ecu is very picky and all it's vital sensors plugged in and working.

[v33sonata]

Thanks for the link! The timing marks line up. I did do a Compression test today and got 50, 95, 96 and 97psi I guess spec min is 150ish. But I think my batt was dieing. I am recharging and going to take another shot. I also checked and am getting spark in all 4 spark plugs. Any other suggestions guys?

[xb_release_2]

Check to see if your injectors are squirting, As well

[Army Fork]

I'd say that's unlikely with the fire out the intake, and if you're running on all four for spark then I'd say it has to be the cam timing, or at least that's what me and my mechanic buddy are thinking. I dunno man, ****'s weird. It might also be that you're not fueling properly, could explain why the flameout is so sporadic. Run some injector cleaner, I doubt it's the fuel but at this point all avenues are worth exploring.

[runkillerrabbit]

yea black top is very picky with its inputs. did you replace any sensors?

[MisterJerk]

might show a little low on the comp test since the engine is cold. dont forget to open the throttles all the way when you do the comp test. (i know you knew that, but sometimes silly stuff can thwart the whole mission) Plus, if the engine has been sitting(not running) for awhile the injectors can get gummed up and stick. I tapped mine with a screw driver handle and unstuck them before. at one point i got a set of used injectors and ended up running power to them, one at a time and blasting carb cleaner through them.

Trying to figure **** out like this is a humongous PITA. Good luck and I hope this ish gets sorted soon.

[allencr]

Low compression = cam timing is off.
#1 probably has some smegma on the seat & will be OK next time or else it's F'd.

[v33sonata]

I'd say that's unlikely with the fire out the intake, and if you're running on all four for spark then I'd say it has to be the cam timing, or at least that's what me and my mechanic buddy are thinking. I dunno man, ****'s weird. It might also be that you're not fueling properly, could explain why the flameout is so sporadic. Run some injector cleaner, I doubt it's the fuel but at this point all avenues are worth exploring.

This thing is driving me nuts! The only thing I might be able to think is maybe the harness is messed up. Tweak'd and I goign to do some troubleshooting monday. Hopefully this will help.

[Army Fork]

I think Allencer is right about the timing, we had the same thought on my end independently. Check your cams, make sure they're set properly.

[runkillerrabbit]

yea thats timing for sure. and its your flooded cylinders catching on fire. atleast you have spark. and injectors work. id start with a some white out, remote starter and timing gun. and check all the little notches to factory specs and go at it. ooo and one place you should check is your exhaust. my friends old mustang had similar problem there was a dead rat in the exhaust. plugging it.

[Army Fork]

Dead rat in the exhaust, my christ. Maybe Jeremy Clarkson shoved some fruit in it.

[v33sonata]

yea thats timing for sure. and its your flooded cylinders catching on fire. atleast you have spark. and injectors work. id start with a some white out, remote starter and timing gun. and check all the little notches to factory specs and go at it. ooo and one place you should check is your exhaust. my friends old mustang had similar problem there was a dead rat in the exhaust. plugging it.

Wow! lol

[v33sonata]

Some light at the end of the tunnle! After not being able to get ahold of tweak'd today I decided to just start without them. Time, check, spark, check, fuel, chec.......wait a second. Tweak'd wired my harness backwards. I was able to squeeze enought out of the wires to make them switch to the opiset ones and she fired up. However it sounds like crap. Here is a vid. Keep in mine it was on for a matter of seconds before the vid started.

[runkillerrabbit]

yea i dont have good experience with dr tweak either. i got a dr tweark blue top to black top conversion harness couldnt get it started! so i just went standalone.
i paid 900 bucks too. i do everything to the dime. i dont mickey mouse anytrhing.

never trusting tweak for a harness again.

[runkillerrabbit]

dude i think timing is off bthat knocking noise sounds like the piston hitting a valve. thats not good.

are you doing everything fsm says to set timing? line up all the hash marks? crank pully to oil pump mark, cams, etc

page em-10 on the black top fsm

link below

http://www.locost7.info/files/engine/4a ... bt4-em.pdf

[v33sonata]

dude i think timing is off bthat knocking noise sounds like the piston hitting a valve. thats not good.

are you doing everything fsm says to set timing? line up all the hash marks? crank pully to oil pump mark, cams, etc

page em-10 on the black top fsm

link below

http://www.locost7.info/files/engine/4a ... bt4-em.pdf

Timing is dead on.

[Army Fork]

Could be a bad injector, dunno. Waiting on my mechanic friend to take a listen

[v33sonata]

Ya my tech friebnd said the same thing. Here are some more. However it isnt looking good Tried to go around the block and the car has zero power also!

[Army Fork]

Check out your injectors, and please don't try to drive the car until the engine is repaired. It probably won't hurt it, but putting a malfunctioning engine under load isn't something I'd recommend

[v33sonata]

Check out your injectors, and please don't try to drive the car until the engine is repaired. It probably won't hurt it, but putting a malfunctioning engine under load isn't something I'd recommend

No i'm not I literly tried to take it out of the driveway and got about 5 feet and said...nope this isnt working haha

[Army Fork]

So I had my mechanic friend listen, and it isn't good news. There is some part in your engine striking another part, you could have a spun rod bearing or you may have a problem with your wrist pin. Obviously we can't know for sure, but that engine sounds like it needs to be torn down, inspected and rebuilt because that is not an injection issue.

[v33sonata]

So I had my mechanic friend listen, and it isn't good news. There is some part in your engine striking another part, you could have a spun rod bearing or you may have a problem with your wrist pin. Obviously we can't know for sure, but that engine sounds like it needs to be torn down, inspected and rebuilt because that is not an injection issue.

Thanks for the reply. Ya my guess was rod knock. I am working with the place I got it from to see if there is something they can do before I tear it down.

[Army Fork]

Good luck dude

[v33sonata]

Thanks. SO a tech buddy of mine looked at it he thinks its a bent valve. I gonna take the head off todya and figure it out.