rack spacer vs power knuckles

The Bloody Panda
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rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby The Bloody Panda » Wed May 15, 2013 7:40 am

I'm curious if anyone knows which will provide more angle : a manual rack with power knuckles and no rack spacer or a manual rack with manual knuckles and a 25mm rack spacer?

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Deuce Cam
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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby Deuce Cam » Wed May 15, 2013 1:38 pm

I'm wondering the same because I'm making the switch to manual knuckles. I tried asking in the drifter thread but didn't get a straight answer.

IIRC the power knuckles alone will give more angle than using a 25 mm with manual knuckles but I could be wrong. I stumbled across a thread somewhere a while back where someone broke down the steering angle difference but I can't seem to find it.

The Bloody Panda
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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby The Bloody Panda » Wed May 15, 2013 2:18 pm

Yeah it'd be real nice to know since it could save me some time and money. My plan right now is to just swap to manual knuckles and see where I stand in regard to clearance. I'm only short by a few millimeters on clearance for running power knuckles with NCRCA's so if a rack spacer would decrease my angle at all after swapping to manual knuckles I'd be set.

Deuce Cam
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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby Deuce Cam » Wed May 15, 2013 2:30 pm

I'm hoping for the same since I'm using a higher offset wheel setup now.

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The Bloody Panda
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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby The Bloody Panda » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:35 am

Bump

Jimmee1990
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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby Jimmee1990 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:15 am

Manual rack with power arms will give you faster steering as well as extra lock, rack spacer is only extra lock. Put both in, best of both worlds.

The Bloody Panda
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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby The Bloody Panda » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:00 am

I just finished swapping to manual knuckles since I finally found a pair. I like to run maximum caster for the lightning fast wheel return but it was a bit difficult with the power knuckles and noticeably easier with the manual ones. Also my steering was binding at full lock with the power knuckles since I was nearly making a straight line through the knuckle, tie rods, and rack. So my wheel would just get stuck at full lock and not come off it until I came to a dead stop. Now that I've seen how much angle I have just with the manual knuckles and a tiny bit of toe out I don't think I'm going to mess with it anymore. I'm glad I swapped to the manual knuckles since I was able to solve several issues that have been plaguing my car since day one.

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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby davieTGB86 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:36 am

If you want lots of angle which preferred in drifting you want the spacer and p/s knuckle which are shorter then the m/s knuckles.

The Bloody Panda
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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby The Bloody Panda » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:09 am

My mentality is that it's better to drift with less angle than with more angle, if more angle means your steering binds and can't be taken off full lock until you come to a dead stop. I'm sure with enough funds this could be sorted out properly but on my budget it's hard to beat OEM parts for things like the steering system. My car's budget only allows a build that is focused on simplicity, durability, and weight savings.

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HASport AE86
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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby HASport AE86 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:39 pm

You want BOTH the rack spacer and the PS knuckles. You'll need some T3 or similar adjustable outer tie rods though, the stock outer tie rods don't allow for enough adjustability in order to center the rack and get everything aligned right.

I've only seen binding at full lock on one corolla before to where the travel is so much that it passes that max angle point and hyperextends all weird and the wheel gets stuck at full lock. It's rare on a corolla so I wouldn't trip about it. 200 and 40 sx Datsun skid racers have this problem so they relocate the steering rack further forward to combat it. DMAC sells a kit for the corolla that bolts up to the inner tie rods, pretty cool.

The more angle you can get, the more room for error you have. You can save the car from spinning out if you get a little too nuts as opposed to a car with only PS knuckles or only spacers. Go for it man, both are cheap. Once you're done, look at some of the alignment threads on here for some good alignment numbers to go off of and get the alignment done. From my experience, alignment is 90% of the battle. You can have a ton of money into the suspension and more angle than a protractor but if your alignment is all wonky you'll be fighting yourself.
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The Bloody Panda
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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby The Bloody Panda » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:46 pm

Thank you for the advice. I wonder how many people are running aftermarket knuckles like the T3 ones, those kept me from binding for years. However, as soon as I put on a set of factory power steering knuckles I was unable to get my wheel to return from full lock since there were no more clearance issues with the knuckles and the parts around them. At this point I feel like I would need to relocate my rack to combat the issue. On the other hand I believe what you're saying about the one corolla you mentioned being the only one that you've ever seen the issue on. It makes me wonder if everyone's knuckles are just running into other parts before their steering is binding.

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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby assassin10000 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:51 pm

Glad those worked for you.

How much caster are you running that you have bind with P/S knuckles?

Andrew

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HASport AE86
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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby HASport AE86 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:09 pm

The Bloody Panda wrote:It makes me wonder if everyone's knuckles are just running into other parts before their steering is binding.


^this
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The Bloody Panda
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Re: rack spacer vs power knuckles

Postby The Bloody Panda » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:59 pm

assassin10000 wrote:Glad those worked for you.

How much caster are you running that you have bind with P/S knuckles?

Andrew


I was running a pretty low amount of caster with the power knuckles but I don't know how much since I'm not sure how to measure it. Before that I was running maximum caster with the power knuckles and the issue seemed even worse but I had other problems going on with parts jamming together. Now I'm running my T3 tension rods at the shortest length possible for maximum caster with my manual knuckles. Gabriel Tyler told me that those tension rods max out at about 3.5 degrees of caster. The steering wheel seemed a bit too heavy to me before with the power knuckles but it feels fine with the manual knuckles. I've got about a half inch of clearance before I rub now on the inner wall of my wheel well. I've got 195's and something like an 1/8th of an inch of toe out. I figure all I could do now is maybe run some of the megan racing inner tie rods and then I'd be out of room again since I might pop some 205's on there before hand.

I'm very pleased with my alignment settings as of today though since I finally got to go to the track for the first time this year. It was just an autocross but it was a huge parking lot with cones spread out wide and lots of speed. My car handled excellent, it was very predictable and easy to control.

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