MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

CloudStrife
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MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Fri May 26, 2017 10:15 am

Hey just a quick question since I'm picking this back up after months and the zerothreads aren't loading..

How far exactly does the MK3 int. need to go into the steering column shaft? What point to point to measure?

Thanks guys

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aukword1
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby aukword1 » Fri May 26, 2017 11:48 am

I am pretty sure I just hammered mine in as far as it would go. Just make sure it will reach the U Joint when everything is in place and you should be good. Don't think you will find an exact measurement for it.

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mad_86
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby mad_86 » Fri May 26, 2017 12:43 pm

3/4th of the shaft goes in

CloudStrife
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Fri May 26, 2017 6:49 pm

Thanks guys, it went in there and just stopped just wanted to make sure. onto the install :}

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CloudStrife
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Sat May 27, 2017 10:28 am

So... couple hiccups.

The shaft, when all the way inserted, Is too far in to reach the U-joint. Like way too far. I had to pull out the shaft to reach the u-joint, which is fine, but it's not securely in the column. I'm using MK3 supra int. shaft, MR2 u-joint and rack and stock 86 steering column. Not sure what the deal is. Might have to insert metal strips between the spacing of the shaft and column or tac weld in place.

Also, the steering rack will "jump" or feel like it skips teeth when turning lock to lock. it's smooth and consistent for a couple of turns, then feels like it jumps a little and the steering is extremely light.

Will upload video.

aukword1
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby aukword1 » Sun May 28, 2017 1:24 pm

when you say stock ae86 steering rack do you mean mr2 manual rack or is it actually a stock ae86 manual steering rack?

CloudStrife
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Tue May 30, 2017 9:58 am

It's an AW11 MR2 steering rack.

I have a feeling the pinion is too short... Anyone happen to know how long it should stick out/ measure?

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Jeonsah
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby Jeonsah » Wed May 31, 2017 6:41 am

Not sure if it helps any but the stock AW11 manual rack is taller than the AE86 manual rack. So the pinion gear sticks out of the housing pretty far. The pinion gear height isnt really adjustable. The end of the gear slides directly into a bearing inside the bottom of the housing.
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CloudStrife
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Wed May 31, 2017 12:32 pm

Yeah, I rebuilt the rack and it should be fine height wise, did it all to spec. I am having separate issue with lock to lock but I don't think it affects pinion height.

Pretty sure it's MR2 rack. Here is a picture of it, mounted up before install.

Image
(Don't mind the weird boot. It's for grease fitting protectors or something lol).

Here is a pic of it installed without my ghetto dust boot.

Image

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Jeonsah
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby Jeonsah » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:32 pm

The intermediate shaft should sit halfway inside the open space in the ujoint. So what you could do is push the intermediate shaft all the way out into the ujoint to the point where it is bottoming out against the actual internal ujoint inside the ujoint. Verify that your steering cant move anymore because it is binding. Then lift the shaft upwards back into the steering column until it clears the internal ujoint and the steering does not bind anymore. Then you can mark that spot on the intermediate shaft and the column.

Next go shopping for a rubber like product that you can inject into the steering column. I think 3M makes something. I have a friend who did this with a 3M product. Anyways, insert the intermediate shaft into the column until your markings line up and use something to hold it there. Let the rubber dry for a day or so. Then your shaft should be positioned correctly and will not move anymore.
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CloudStrife
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:22 pm

Thanks Jeonsah,

I had the same idea with the rubber, it just seems like that area where the int. shaft, steering column, and u-joint meet, is such a high force/ takes a beating, that I'd be concerned with just rubber taking up the gap.. What do you think?

I'll at least focus on getting the int. shaft 50% in the u-joint, then worry about securing the shaft to the column.

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Jeonsah
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby Jeonsah » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:41 am

The intermediate shaft has rubber on it from the factory. So I would assume it is fine. Most if not all of the shaft's movement is horizontal. The female end on the column where the shaft plugs into is shaped a certain way. So the shaft cannot spin inside the column at all. The only way the intermediate shaft moves is when the column moves.

Also, when the ujoint is bolted down around the intermediate shaft. That is also going to limit the vertical travel of the intermediate shaft. So there should be minimal play in the shaft/column if any.
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby johnoae86 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:51 pm

Hi guys kind of off topic a touch but need help here my cars universal steering u joint has failed and need to replace what is the best way to do so ?? Shoukd i rekease steering collum and take out of car with two u joint bolts removed first ???

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Jeonsah
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby Jeonsah » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:49 am

Johnoae86 you could try undoing the 2 ujoint bolts and seeing if you can get it off without removing the column. Otherwise, you will probably have to pull the column out.
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby johnoae86 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:05 am

Ive the two bolts out but its not moving but im now wondering if i pull the column out will u joint stay attached to rack anyway ??

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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:46 am

Just dump penetrating fluid or brake fluid/ carb cleaner all over the u-joint shaft on the pinion side and the rack side.

Let it sit for awhile and then start trying to get it off. It will likely be stuck on there pretty good from years of grime/rust/buildup creating a bond.

If that doesn't work, get a propane torch and heat up the u-joint ends. This will expand the u-joint shafts causing them to break loose if done right.

Just to let you know, U-joints are not usually a complete failure item...

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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:49 am

Jeonsah wrote:The intermediate shaft has rubber on it from the factory. So I would assume it is fine. Most if not all of the shaft's movement is horizontal. The female end on the column where the shaft plugs into is shaped a certain way. So the shaft cannot spin inside the column at all. The only way the intermediate shaft moves is when the column moves.

Also, when the ujoint is bolted down around the intermediate shaft. That is also going to limit the vertical travel of the intermediate shaft. So there should be minimal play in the shaft/column if any.


Thanks man, that sounds good. Have you happened by any of this 3M rubber?

I do have a little play between the int. shaft (column steering end) and the column steering shaft.

Right now though, I'm trying to figure out why my rack feels like it is "skipping" at certain parts. Very strange. I rebuilt it but it's not necessarily the most complicated mechanism internally, so I don't know what's up..

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Jeonsah
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby Jeonsah » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:19 am

I am not sure what the official name is for the 3M product nor do I know where to get it. I had a friend who had used it and told me about it. He had some play in his column/intermediate shaft that he fixed with the 3M rubber stuff. Might be worth giving 3M a call yourself and ask them.

In regards to your problem with the rack gear skipping teeth, Verify the big nut on the back of the rack is correctly set. That giant bolt sets the backlash (distance) between the rack gear and the pinion gear.

Also you could try to determine what conditions cause the rack to skip. You could try replicating those conditions while in your garage. Then you can visually inspect the issue.
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CloudStrife
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:20 pm

I see your troubleshooting line of thought, and I think that is where the problem lies.

I ended up taking the rack apart piece by piece while still on the subframe, while trying to find a failure item. Nothing seemed to identify the problem. I backed off the rack guide nut and collar (I'm assuming you're talking about this bolt), and found that the rack seemed to bind none at all when the tension of the rack guide was completely gone. IE the spring had no force pushing the rack guide.

I noticed the rack guide was the wrong part (the one I got from toyota is just a single plastic rack guide, while the one that came from the rack originally was metal with a plastic inserted rack tip). So I replaced the rack guide with the original one and even tried to reseat the pinion into the gear housing to make sure it was sitting in all the way. Still had the "skipping" feeling.

I took it out and took it apart. the pinion gear/shaft is fully seated inside the rack housing, making contact with the bottom mount with the bottom bearing. However, I noticed when I reinstalled that rack guide with spring and the big threaded bolt/nut thing, that the rack wanted to bind. I can see this as there is no grease where the rack guide and the rack shaft meet.

So then I even swapped out the new spring with the old spring, thinking time had settled it down and compressed it more, making it a shorter spring, so I swapped that out. It still binds even with the slightest preload.

SO I went back into Asassin's thread and I'm assuming it's the nut/cap that holds the retainer spring and rack guide. I was using the service manual and torquing at about 18 ft-lbs, then backing off 25- 12 degrees. Going off of the thread made much more sense, I guess I'm just worried about it being too loose. But, I followed his guide and backed off until it was both firm in the housing (IE no lateral back/ forth, up/down play when moving inner rods), and I was not rubbing or catching.

Guess we'll see when she drives. And then...

Image


Also, thanks for the help Jeonsah, I think this is what I'll be looking for in regards to filling the gap:

https://www.amazon.com/3M-1300-Neoprene ... ubber&th=1
(3M 1300 Neoprene High Performance Rubber & Gasket Adhesive, Yellow)

If I'm really impatient I also have black high-temp permatex. But from my experience the more industrial the solvent/glues are, the better!

CloudStrife
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:38 pm

One more question I have regarding this swap...

I've occasionally read that strengthened tie-rod ends are actually not a good idea for a street car. They mention that if one does enough damage, say running a good curb, the force of the impact is transferred to the rack instead of being absorbed by the outer rods which then will bend.

Is there any truth to this? Wondering because I bought 555 Strengthened PS tie-rod ends and would rather swap them out now.

Heres what I got:
Image

Thanks dudes.

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mad_86
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby mad_86 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:56 pm

your fine use what you got, i ran OReilly brand for a couple of yrs no problems

NEW steering parts are always a good idea

GL

TIP:
before you remove your outter tie rod, mark the threads with a white/Yellow marker
so that install you can put them in the same spot as before,

CloudStrife
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:21 am

Yo, thanks mad.

The tie-rods were already off the rack when I got it, so it needs to be sorted out properly. I'll probably just throw them on and torque to factory spec and leave it for when she goes to the body shop for work/alignment.

If everything goes well the thread will die.. If not I'll update lol. Thanks again guys

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Jeonsah
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby Jeonsah » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:44 am

How did the rack feel after you adjusted the nut/cap that holds the retainer spring and rack guide? Did you test drive it?
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CloudStrife
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Re: MK3 int. shaft and manual rack swap

Postby CloudStrife » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:54 am

It definitely doesn't bind any more, but it'll be awhile before she drives. I'll try and update it when everything is together.

BTW, the yellow 3M industrial liquid rubber I used to take up the slack between the MK3 shaft and the GT-S steering column worked great! No more play in there. Basically, I just dipped the shaft into the solution/mixture up to a point I marked (where the shaft was fully seated), and stuck it in there.

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