Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

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jondee86
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Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby jondee86 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:26 pm

Copied this over from another forum because I think it would be useful to
get to the bottom of this question. I have not been able to find a definitive
answer as to how much oil stays inside the gearbox when it is drained on
the car... and I need to know :D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Changed the oil on my car today and found that after draining the T-50
I could only get about 1.1 litres in the fill hole before it started running out :?
Now I know that the FSM says 1.7 litres and I know that there will be a bit of
old oil left inside, but 1.1 litres is well short. And if there is 600 ml of old oil
left inside and I am changing grades, that's gonna fcuk with the expensive
new oil I put in !!

Car was near enough dead level. Is there some trick to getting the oil in/out
that I might be missing, that would account for this strangeness ?

Cheers... jondee86
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jondee86
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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby jondee86 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:29 pm

Then Andrew contributed this....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fill through shifter hole.

Trans isnt level in the car. Rear needs to be slightly higher.

Andrew
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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby jondee86 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:30 pm

Thanks Andrew... I drained it again with the back 3" higher than the front.
Still didn't get much more than a litre out, so maybe that is what it has been
running with ? Anyway, this time I will fill it thru the shifter hole and stick
in 1.5 litres. Should be good :D

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby jondee86 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:30 pm

Just to tidy this up... I measured how much oil drained out...
1. With the car level drained 1150 ml
2. With the back of the car 3" higher drained 1150 ml
So it seems that draining and then filling until oil spills out the level
plug will only allow 1150 ml of fresh oil to be filled into the gearbox.

Now I have added 1500 ml thru the shifter hole, and there is a BIG
reduction in gear noise inside the cabin. Therefore it is reasonable
to assume that filling until oil spills out the level plug DOES NOT add
sufficient oil. Adding 1500 ml is better, and maybe adding 1700 ml
would be even better for hard use. I'll try that next time :)

Cheers... jondee86
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jondee86
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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby jondee86 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:35 pm

So if anyone has a spare gearbox lying around and would like to experiment,
I would really like to know how much oil stays inside. Then we could know for
sure if filling thru the level plug fills enough oil into the box or not ?

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby Deuce Cam » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:51 am

Regarding filling through the shifter hole and overfilling the box... I did the same last time on my current ae86, and also on my last ae86 with a different trans a couple years ago. Both times I very slowly leaked fluid out the input / output shaft seals (mainly the front) until the level dropped to the fill hole. It took months for it to level out, and it seems to hold at the fill hole. Obviously my seals need to be replaced, but I found it odd that the same thing happened on 2 different transmissions.

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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby jondee86 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:01 pm

In reply to a question about over-filling on another forum...

Yeah... I sort of took the oil level into consideration. It is possible to
overfill a gearbox, and it could result in oil churning and drag. But then
the factory recommended fill of 1.7 litres is most likely based on filling
a dry gearbox... and I don't know how much oil is left inside when its
drained on the car. So I settled on there being maybe 200 ml left inside
and added 1500 ml.

Image

Looking at this there seems to be a reasonable amount of clear space in
the bottom of the box. And going by the reduction in gear noise the teeth
must be meshing in oil now, or have a lot more oil on the tooth contact area
than they had before. The noise it made before always bothered me... it
was just too loud for a happy gearbox.

Now it sounds happy, and until someone can tip up a "drained" gearbox and
tell me how much was left inside, I'll take a chance with adding 1500 ml.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby jondee86 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:03 pm

Then Andrew added this...

Even complely drained from the plug, when I tipped a t50 up on end I still got
a small puddle of oil out of it IIRC. Not including what was stuck to the surfaces inside...

Putting 1.5-1.7L through the shifter hole is good imo. Its not enough to overfill the trans afaik.
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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby jondee86 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:07 pm

85AW20v wrote:It's not a case of fill it till it comes out the output shaft end rather than the
"filler hole" is it seeing as the rear is slightly higher as suggested by assassin10000?
Would it take 1700ml if that was done?

I drained the gearbox with the rear raised, and no more oil drained out than when it
was level. And considering the small angle/change in slope of the gearbox by raising
the rear wheels 75mm, I really don't see any realistic chance of getting more oil in.

I believe the real difference between the recommended factory fill and the amount you
can squeeze into the fill plug, is explained here...

Image
Thanks to HASportAE86 for the pic... you da man ;)

When the gearbox cases are together, the assembly bolt locations at the bottom form
a series of small "weirs" retaining puddles of oil. These will always hold some oil when
the gearbox is drained. In addition to which the drain plug is not at the bottom of the
box, but in the side, and located above the top of one of the "weirs".

This glass holds 7oz or 200ml....

Image

... and it is not difficult to visualise that amount of oil being left in the gearbox after
draining. What I have more difficulty with is figuring out why I could only fill 1150ml
into the gearbox ? Either a lot more than 200ml stays inside, or the positioning of the
fill hole is too low. Whatever the explanation, I'm going to stay with filling 1500 ml :)

Cheers... jondee86
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ae86714
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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby ae86714 » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:23 pm

Then maybe jack up the passenger side a little? lol or alot...

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jondee86
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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby jondee86 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:49 pm

Yeah... just up the RHS about a foot for draining, and then change
to jacking up the LHS about a foot for filling. Should work :D

Cheers
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saiGone
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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby saiGone » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:08 am

I'm surprised you guys can get your fill bolt off! Mine and a lot of my friends are frozen. That bolt is so shallow and strips easily as well.
Club 4AG member since 05 (Formally SaigonsSon)

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phanist
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Re: Squeezing oil into a T-50 gearbox...

Postby phanist » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:48 pm

Do one on the replace the rear end oil
Please. Lol

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