Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

notnilc20
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Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby notnilc20 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:21 pm

Here it is in the picture.....why is the idle adjuster capped off like that? How to adjust this? Just break the cap off?

Image

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jondee86
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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby jondee86 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:40 pm

It's just a rubber plug to stop people putting cigarette butts and other hard to
get out rubbish down the tube (* insert your own butt plug comment here). You
can easily get it out with your fingers and push it back in with your thumb.
(** second chance if you passed on the first comment :D )

Cheers... jondee86
Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

notnilc20
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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby notnilc20 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:55 am

Oh ok.... thanks for the reply.

notnilc20
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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby notnilc20 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:03 am

jondee86 wrote:It's just a rubber plug to stop people putting cigarette butts and other hard to
get out rubbish down the tube (* insert your own butt plug comment here). You
can easily get it out with your fingers and push it back in with your thumb.
(** second chance if you passed on the first comment :D )

Cheers... jondee86


Hmmmm....maybe that's why I can't get the engine timing set right? I would set up my tps correctly....then put car in diagnostics mode by jumping the two female plug @ firewall....I would then set the timing to 10 deg. Btdc......but then when I take the wire out and take out of diagnostics mode....it would die on me immediately. So then I would mess with the screw on the right side of the throttle body just in front of the throttle linkage....the one that's connected to the throttle plate and therefore the tps as well....and when I did this.....it would throw the settings off on the tps.....making it untunable once again...giving me a 7 blinking cel code.

So maybe i set my tps....set my timing in diag. Mode.....then set my idle with the idle screw mentioned in the OP.....and maybe the car won't die on me? Thoughts?

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jondee86
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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby jondee86 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:01 pm

notnilc20 wrote:So maybe i set my tps....set my timing in diag. Mode.....then set my idle with the
idle screw mentioned in the OP.....and maybe the car won't die on me? Thoughts?

That's the way to do it, but there is a certain amount of juggling involved :)

Ideally, the throttle stop screw should be set so that the arm settles on the screw
just the tiniest fraction before the throttle plate hits the inside of the throttlebody.
This is to prevent the throttle plate wearing a groove in the throttlebody. Probably
the best way to set it is to let the throttle plate bottom out and then adjust the screw
until you see the plate just start to lift off the body. Holding the whole thing to the
light is the best way to check that the plate is not hitting the body before the arm
hits the screw. Now you have minimum air leakage past the throttle plate.

Lock the throttle stop screw and THEN adjust the TPS by loosening the two little
screws and carefully rotating the TPS. Tighten the screws once you have it set.

Get the engine up to operating temperature so that the AAV is fully closed and no
longer having an effect on the idle speed. Adjust the idle air bypass screw to get
the engine idling at around 850-900rpm. Put the ECU into diagnostic mode and set
the timing to 10degBTDC by adjusting the distributor. Adjust the idle speed bypass
screw again if the idle speed has changed AFTER you take the ECU out of diagnostic
mode.

Because there will be a difference of around 5-6deg of timing between base timing
and actual running timing, the idle speed will drop when you put the ECU into
diagnostic mode. So don't try and check/set the idle speed with the bypass screw
until it is back in normal running mode with the jumper wire removed.

The fact that the idle speed does change when you remove the jumper wire from the
diagnostic plug is a sure way of knowing that you were actually in diagnostic mode.

Cheers... jondee86
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notnilc20
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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby notnilc20 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:03 pm

I vote sticky! Such great information Jondee....Ok great.....well this gives me hope that I can get the car set at optimal timing. So if after you remove the wire from diagnostics plug the idle might increase slightly due to the fact that there will be a slight difference of 5-6 deg of timing btdc....it's still a little concerning as to why the car just dies right when I take the jumper wire out of the diag plug.....no hiccups or anything, just flatline....

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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby jondee86 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:50 pm

Can't think of any reason why the engine should die because you pull the wire out :?

I would suggest that once you have set the TPS according to the details given in my
post above, you test the TPS. There are specific resistance ranges that apply when you
test between the pins, and you need to verify that your TPS values fall within those
ranges. In particular the VTA-E2 value and the IDL-E2 value (no feeler inserted).

The code 7 CEL indicates a possible short or open circuit in the TPS or TPS wiring and
those two readings are relevant. If the TPS tests good, then you will need to check the
TPS wiring to make sure there is no problem between the TPS and the ECU.

However, before you get too far into this, a sanity check is just to see if the engine
starts and runs OK after stalling when you pull the wire. If it runs fine and does not
stall under anyother circumstances, forget about it :) How often are you going to be
pulling that wire out... not too often I hope.

Cheers... jondee86
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notnilc20
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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby notnilc20 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:44 pm

jondee86 wrote:Can't think of any reason why the engine should die because you pull the wire out :?

I would suggest that once you have set the TPS according to the details given in my
post above, you test the TPS. There are specific resistance ranges that apply when you
test between the pins, and you need to verify that your TPS values fall within those
ranges. In particular the VTA-E2 value and the IDL-E2 value (no feeler inserted).

The code 7 CEL indicates a possible short or open circuit in the TPS or TPS wiring and
those two readings are relevant. If the TPS tests good, then you will need to check the
TPS wiring to make sure there is no problem between the TPS and the ECU.

However, before you get too far into this, a sanity check is just to see if the engine
starts and runs OK after stalling when you pull the wire. If it runs fine and does not
stall under anyother circumstances, forget about it :) How often are you going to be
pulling that wire out... not too often I hope.

Cheers... jondee86


Once again....thanks for taking the time to help.....I will test the tps using the fsm specs and update on this thread in a few days.....work always gets in the way...

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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby notnilc20 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:34 pm

Forgot to mention Jondee that when I take the wire out of the diagnostic plug the car dies and then if I try to start the car after that it just cranks over on and on and on and never starts.

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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby jondee86 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:13 pm

Ahh... the plot thickens :) I have never struck this before (only starts with the
jumper wire inserted), so I am back to guessing what might be happening.

Based on the fact that the engine does start and run with the jumper, all the
basic fuel and ignition syuff must be working. What I don't know is exactly how
the jumper changes things inside the ECU. I know that it locks ignition timing
at 10degBTDC, and it can do this using just the Ne signal. So it is possible that
all other input signals are ignored while the plug is jumpered ?

Making the bold assumption that the Code 7 is involved, maybe the ECU
does look at the TPS inputs before allowing the engine to run ? Therefore I'd
go with a full check on the TPS values and make sure that there is continuity
from the TPS to the ECU on each wire. Then check if the Code 7 disappears
when you reset the ECU.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby notnilc20 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:09 pm

jondee86 wrote: Holding the whole thing to the
light is the best way to check that the plate is not hitting the body before the arm
hits the screw.


Gonna be doing this tmrw probably so I just want to clarify what you mean here. What do you mean, "holding the whole thing to the light"? Thanks.

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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby jondee86 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:12 am

Remove the throttlebody from the intake manifold and point it towards a light source
as if you were trying to look down the throat of the throttlebody. Then open the butterfly
slightly. You will see a thin crescent of light appear on the edge of the butterfly. Because
of the high contrast you can easily see the increase in brightness caused by even a very
small movement of the butterfly.

So see how much light sneaks thru when the butterfly is resting on the inside of the
throttlebody and then adjust the throttle arm stop screw to hold the butterfly slightly open
which will give you a "thicker" crescent of light. The adjustment will be about right when
you can let the butterfly close on a narrow strip of paper from a magazine, and you can
draw the paper out from under the butterfly without tearing. Hope that makes sense :)

Cheers... jondee86
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notnilc20
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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby notnilc20 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:33 am

jondee86 wrote:Remove the throttlebody from the intake manifold and point it towards a light source
as if you were trying to look down the throat of the throttlebody. Then open the butterfly
slightly. You will see a thin crescent of light appear on the edge of the butterfly. Because
of the high contrast you can easily see the increase in brightness caused by even a very
small movement of the butterfly.

So see how much light sneaks thru when the butterfly is resting on the inside of the
throttlebody and then adjust the throttle arm stop screw to hold the butterfly slightly open
which will give you a "thicker" crescent of light. The adjustment will be about right when
you can let the butterfly close on a narrow strip of paper from a magazine, and you can
draw the paper out from under the butterfly without tearing. Hope that makes sense :)

Cheers... jondee86


Yes.....that makes perfect sense.....thanks again.

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Re: Idle adjuster.... why is it blocked off?

Postby notnilc20 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:29 pm

jondee86 wrote:Remove the throttlebody from the intake manifold and point it towards a light source
as if you were trying to look down the throat of the throttlebody. Then open the butterfly
slightly. You will see a thin crescent of light appear on the edge of the butterfly. Because
of the high contrast you can easily see the increase in brightness caused by even a very
small movement of the butterfly.

So see how much light sneaks thru when the butterfly is resting on the inside of the
throttlebody and then adjust the throttle arm stop screw to hold the butterfly slightly open
which will give you a "thicker" crescent of light. The adjustment will be about right when
you can let the butterfly close on a narrow strip of paper from a magazine, and you can
draw the paper out from under the butterfly without tearing. Hope that makes sense :)

Cheers... jondee86



UPDATE!! I finally got it sorted. First off special thanks to Jondee86 for the excellent spot on info.! I set up the TB and TPS and what my main issue was....was the distributor kept turning before I could install it into place and causing me issues....even after I took the dist. Cap off and held the rotor in place it still took me a few tries to get it lined up properly....finally I was then able to put car into diagnostics mode and time the engine to 10 deg btdc and i was able to adjust the idle using the screw located on the tb as mentioned above. when the jumper was removed, the engine did not die on me...and the timing was moved to 16 deg btdc. Woo Hoo! Here is a video I made on the entire process.
https://youtu.be/ecu53wgRR-8

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