Gonna start a build and see where it goes ===> TWINSCREW !!! :-p

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:29 pm

Caccomando wrote:Looking forward to pics!

I'd like to be able to put some up, but progress is painfully slow at the moment.
This is the Bosch type of bypass valve that I will be using to begin...

Image

If I find that it does not open soon enough when the throttle closes, for a lot more
money I will replace it with one of these...

Image

Alloy body with piston and adjustable spring, and will drop in where the Bosch
unit fits with no alterations. I would have liked to install one of the "mini type"
butterfly bypass valves, only there is no way to make it fit with my layout.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:12 pm

Reached a kind of a milestone :) Did a final mockup on the ducting to make sure
all the pieces fit together before getting welded.

Image

Image

Throttle linkage looks like it will work fine with the revised bracket, and hopefully
clear the fuel supply banjo on the rail. Cleaned up a stuck 20V ISCV and found a
place to mount it under the intake. But I have given up on the by-pass valve for the
time being... I'll have to come back to it after the charger is installed and I can see
how much room I have for hoses.

The by-pass valve is not essential on a draw thru throttle system. It is mainly there
to allow some air to circulate while the engine is out of boost... apparently that is
good for fuel economy. Not really an issue for me as this car is not a DD.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby trigun402 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:28 am

That's an impressive look.

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby oldeskewltoy » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:31 am

:shock:


Jondee's version of a bundle of snakes....... :lol:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:35 pm

oldeskewltoy wrote:Jondee's version of a bundle of snakes...

Really just a case of form following function. I wanted to have the air
discharging into the intake manifold more or less at the same angle as
the factory GZE cast ducting. And this layout was the only way I could do
that and still (hopefully) fit within the available space.

Besides... I like steampunk :)

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jinx » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:50 pm

I suppose the supercharger couldn't be flipped, so discharge on the opposite side ?
What sort of hp/tq/boost are your target ?
lookin good

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:52 pm

jinx wrote:I suppose the supercharger couldn't be flipped, so discharge on the opposite side ?

Mechanically, as the lubrication is internal and sealed, the charger can be mounted
more or less in any position. If I had been building a full custom manifold and mounting
bracket arrangement, I might have done it that way. But because I was using the GZE
manifold and mounting bracket, there were some restrictions on where things could go.
Besides, I didn't want to hide that beautiful charger away from view :)

What sort of hp/tq/boost are your target ?

There is not a lot of reliable performance data available for these chargers other than
what is published for the vehicle specific kits that Sprintex produce. I have three pulleys
here that should produce around 10, 15 and 20 psi respectively at 7800rpm. My estimate
is that these will generate something like 200, 250 and 300hp hp at the flywheel.

This is a graph for a A2W intercooled S5-210 Sprintex charger on a BZR/GT86 to show
the kind of results they are obtaining (and I hope to achieve the same shape curves)...

Image
http://www.moto-east.com/main/innovate-intercooled-results/

And this is (part) of what they say about the setup...
We were able to squeeze 250 WHP on 92 octane with a remote tune. With a broad
torque curve from 3000 RPM to redline, this setup is incredibly fun to drive, and
provides an excellent match to the lightweight platform.


Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jinx » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:22 am

Besides, I didn't want to hide that beautiful charger away from view

No plans to install this powerplant then ? In a road car engine bay, it'll most likely hide from view :)

robust tq curve, for sure. Fun

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby oldeskewltoy » Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:30 pm

very nice indeed........
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:19 pm

jinx wrote:In a road car engine bay, it'll most likely hide from view :)

I thought everyone opened the hood to admire their engine before driving :oops: :oops:

Long way to go before this engine is boosting, but this is my hobby and also
a learning process. It will take as long as it takes... maybe by Xmas there will
be something interesting to report :)

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jinx » Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:14 pm

only so much u can see of a low mounted charger with plumbing atop I reckon ?

These miatas really show off their chargers, hot or cold side.
Heck, rotate either 90 degrees and you probably had to cut for clearance.
Then you could show em off with the bonnet shut :roll:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/668/2075 ... a0de_c.jpg
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww13 ... vh7cxj.jpg

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:48 pm

When I first started looking at this project, I did consider more of a top mount
position for the charger. The difficulty then became that I would have to fabricate
a complete custom intake manifold/mounting bracket setup. That would have meant
a heap of measuring, cutting, welding and CNC machining, all of which adds up when
you need to get a machine shop to do the fabrication work.

This is a typical Sprintex installation kit...

Image

Minimum of fabrication required, because the kit has a sturdy cast manifold to suit
the engine, and a cast inlet elbow to get the intake pointing in the right direction.
The hard work is already done, and that is the reason factory kits cost big $$$$$$.

I decided to use the GZE manifold and charger mounting bracket, and that meant
that the charger had to go where it would fit, and the ducting became a bit more
complicated. The up side is that I get to make the ducting as free-flowing as possible,
and that should help the blower efficiency. As always, the Devil is in the details :)

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jinx » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:32 am

Those plug n play supercharger kits are nice. You can see where the custom parts drive the cost up

Interesting d.i.y. supercharger miata installs exist, where they mananged to keep costs surprisingly low
Built around used oem chargers + did their own fabricating + no CNC parts, etc.... Good planning made it possible

Don't get me wrong, your approach makes good sense

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:01 pm

jinx wrote:Interesting d.i.y. supercharger miata installs exist, where they mananged to keep costs
surprisingly lowBuilt around used oem chargers + did their own fabricating + no CNC parts,
etc.... Good planning made it possible

For sure... I have looked at the build threads on many DIY supercharger installations and
been amazed at what some people can do !!! In this country the SC12 and SC14 have been
grafted onto many different engines because they have been readily available. However,
modern Lysholm type superchargers are rare, and seldom come up for sale.

Roots chargers have "in one side out the other" connections which simplify installation,
while Lysholm charges are "in one end and then out the side". In a RHD AE86 that causes
a bit of a problem for the dischage, as the brake booster and clutch master get in the way.
That meant I needed a short charger that could be mounted as far forward as possible. And
I also wanted to be able to use as many unmodified stock components as I could for coolant
routing and mounting accessories. Factory stuff is strong and fits correctly.

No doubt there are better/neater ways of setting up a supercharger. And if I was to start
again I would probably go all out and design a custom intake manifold to hold the charger
and place it in a more accessible position. This is my first shot at being creative, and if
it works out.. great. If it doesn't, then I shall take it down and start over. Being different
is part of my game plan... ;)

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:44 pm

Been sorting out a few small details while waiting for the weather to improve. Got
some of these, only they looked a bit different from what I was expecting...

Image

Thought I might have been sold some fakes, but checking it out it seems that ARP
have made a few changes to some of their bolts. These have ARP and PRO on the head
which is flat and not dimpled. Same with the threaded end, no divot for measuring
stretch...

Image

ARP say crank them up to 70ft-lbs using blue loctite on the thread and their lube under
the head. That works out to be a huge increase on the factory torque of 54ft-lb with
just oil for lube :shock: Not sure that I will go that high... I think 62ft-lb would be plenty.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:19 pm

Needed a way to turn the electric radiator fan on and off while I am using the OEM
ECU to run the engine during breakin. So I went to the local Pick-N-Pull and grabbed
these thermoswitches off random FWD Corollas...

Image

Got to test them first with some hot water to check the switching temperature, and
then I will be putting one in the water outlet at the rear of the head. They have the
same 16mm thread as the cold start injector time switch...

Image

And since I'm not using the cold start injector, the thermoswitch will plug right into
its place. This is a FWD water outlet, but the same two brown and green sensors are
found in the RWD water outlet. Then just a case of wiring up a couple of relays and
a fused power supply for the electric fan.

EDIT: As a matter of interest, all the thermoswitches are closed when cold and open
when they hit temperature. Results of testing were...
Switch with round plug: Open @ 89degC and close @ 83degC
Switch with grey plug: Open @ 92degC and close @ 88degC
Switch with black plug: Open @ 90degC and close @ 87degC

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:47 pm

Got one of these Flywheel Holding Tools (top of pic) from SQ Engineering...

Image

Makes the job of tightening the crank pulley bolt and flywheel bolts sooooooo easy :)

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jinx » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:44 pm

or put a bolt in lower tranny mount hole, with a socket between it and flywheel teeth :)

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:06 pm

Comparison between the AE86 and AE92 smallport starters...

Image

Image

Bolts right up and apart from being smaller and lighter, the AE92 starter is supposed
to be more powerful. We shall see :)

EDIT: Just goes to show you can't believe everything you read on the interweb. A bit of
research reveals the AE92 starter to be rated at 0.80 kW, and the AE86 starter is rated
at... wait for it... 0.80 kW :| But yeah, smaller and lighter is good too :)

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby oldeskewltoy » Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:24 pm

From the Toyota Fast Moving Parts catalog 1970-1997....

Image
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:09 pm

:lol: Yeah... I saw that there were 1.0 kW versions listed for the AE86. Mine doesn't
have a sticker, so I'm not sure of the actual rating. Probably varies by market as having
to turn an engine in sub-zero temps will take a bit more grunt than required in temperate
climates like NZ.

Anyways my reasoning is that my AE92 starter (28100-15190) came fitted to a high comp
smallport, so it should work fine on my GZE compression engine.

Cheers... jondee86

EDIT: I just came across this on another site...
Planatary gear reduction type 0.8kw starter, 2.85kg: 28100-15190 AE92
This is the type with the long through bolts. It does not look like a reduction starter at first,
but it has planatary gears inside and is. It came on some AE92s with 4A-GE. Its main advantage
is that it's very light. This style of starter is used on other AE92s with 4A-FE, and AE101, AE102
etc includiing the AE101 20 valve, BUT these ones do NOT fit the AE86 as they are mounted on
the back side of the engine. Only the one off the AE92 4A-GE fits.

Like the man says, it sure doesn't look like a reduction starter, and I'm not about to pull
the thing apart to check. I'll have to wait and see if it makes a cool noise :)

EDIT, EDIT: Just remembered that I have junked starter from a 20V lying around somewhere.
When I find it I will take it apart and study it's entrails.
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:37 pm

As promised, a closer look at the 20V starter. Looks like this on the outside...

Image

... and like this on the inside...

Image

So there you have it... 20V starters are reduction type. The gears down the speed
and up the torque so that the starter motor can be smaller, and the whole thing lighter
than the old style starters without reduction gears. This starter is Toyota # 28100-15190
and the bolts centres will not allow this to bolt to a T-50 bellhousing.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:02 pm

Bit of a milestone day for the build today. Fired up the engine for the first time :)
Not without a glitch... when I cranked it there was nothing, just the engine turning
over with no sign of life. Tried several times and still nothing. So I thought... problem ?
Pulled a plug and no smell of gas, so loosened the banjo bolt on the fuel rail, and dry as
a bone. Thought the fuel pump had died, but just to be sure I gave it one more crank.

Wouldn't you know it... gas finally arrived and I had a garden sprinkler of gasoline
under the hood !! Luckily the engine didn't roar into life... it stumbled a bit and I was
able to shut it down right away. Had to wait a while for the gas to evaporate and
disappear before trying again. But it fired up right off and after a quick timing check
and look for leaks, I was out of the garage and driving :D

Got back a half hour later with engine break-in completed according to the Moto-Man
technique. Engine runs real well for a low comp 8.9:1 GZE spec block. Couldn't do a
back to back comparison with the 10.3:1 block, but the new engine wouldn't be all that
far behind on power. Certainly not gutless as GZE engines running N.A. are said to be.
Got it back in the garage and checked for leaks... fcuk !!! Oil running down the exhaust
side right at the front. First thought was the MLS head gasket must be leaking, but on
closer inspection the oil seemed to be coming from higher up.

Pulled the cam wheels and backing plate for a closer look, and to my great relief, it
was a leaking cam seal... the oil tracks on the backing plate tell the story.

Image

I remember that the seals were a prick to install... seemed to be oversize and took
a lot hammering to get them fitted. Lesson learned... should have got another set and
replaced them. But I'm happy it is only a couple of seals required... easy fix :)

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby davew7 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:51 am

I've always had good luck when installing the cam seals, if I remove the front cam bearing cap , then side the seal on the shaft. That way you can verify that the seal is straight to both the shaft and head plus you can tell that the spring and lip are OK, before you re-install and troque down the cap. Dave W

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:19 pm

I've done them both ways, and what I found is that clamping them down with
the cap works best with seals that have been used for a while. New seals are
softer, and a bit inclined to get nipped at either side when clamping them down.
So I pushed these in by hand as far as I could, and then used a socket to drive
them. They were genuine Toyota seals made from some harder than usual tan
colored plastic. They did not seem to compress at all, and the housing shaved
a bit off the outer edge of the seal.

I thought I could get away with it.... FAIL :oops:

EDIT: Got some new black nitrile seals and they almost went in with thumb
pressure... just had to loosen the caps a little to get them in the right place.

Cheers...jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:19 pm

Went out for another short drive this morning and gave the engine a pretty good
workout :) Ran great, and when I checked afterwards, no signs of any leaks anywhere.
Engine idles at about 950rpm fully warmed up with 14.7 AFR so it appears the factory
ECU can compensate for a change in compression.

Even my jury-rigged water temp switch to turn on the thermofan works !!! Switch is
on the back of the head, so the fan turns on at idle if I have been working the engine
hard. Otherwise if the car is driving the radiator can keep the temp steady without
needing the fan.

Got to go after an ECU now. Bit bummed that the one I wanted still has not been
released for sale, so I shall most likely get one of the current versions...

Image

Doesn't have a couple of features I would like, but I need to keep this project moving.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby grappletech » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:56 am

if its not too much, would you post a vid of your set up? I know it will be amazing
87 GT-S Coupe Super Duper Clean
87 GT-S Coupe Beams 3sge (under construction because I'm slow and lazy and broke--- FML)
87 SR5 Coupe Shell. Who knows when I'll work on it.

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:27 pm

There is nothing to see just now. Only a stock looking smallport in an AE86.
The supercharger stuff won't be installed until I get an ECU wired up and working
without the charger. Then, once I have a base tune going, I can bolt on the charger
and start working on the boosted part of the tune.

First day it runs with the charger on I'll put a video up... bet on it :D

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby grappletech » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:30 pm

Thanks, I'm definitely looking forward to it.
87 GT-S Coupe Super Duper Clean
87 GT-S Coupe Beams 3sge (under construction because I'm slow and lazy and broke--- FML)
87 SR5 Coupe Shell. Who knows when I'll work on it.

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Re: Gonna start a build and see where it goes :-P

Postby jondee86 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:56 pm

Added a couple of pics on Page 1...
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18729&p=120395#p120395

Just so that you know this project hasn't died :)

Cheers... jondee86
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