OST-028: Redline it baby....

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: OST-028: Redline it baby....

Postby oldeskewltoy » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:17 am

so... the head is mostly finished... porting wise. My client has ordered a set of Toda valve springs, when they arrive, I'll be re-assembling... and setting the valve clearances for the clients Pon cams.


In the mean time.... the manifold/delete plate "compromise" needs improving... #1 and #4 intake paths are pretty crappy... actually really crappy! If nothing is done... the air speed coming out of the carbs will slow dramatically making low rpm operation less than enjoyable.


Remember... this is the problem.....

oldeskewltoy wrote:
....lets looking at the problem from a different perspective....


Image

The red lines represent the air path from the carb mount flange to the valves. The carb spacing is wider than the ports, and leads to the awkward set up you see.........


So I got to thinking..... what if.....

Image





Above is a bit of an extreme... and is difficult to pull off because the correction passes through 3 different sections of the intake - the manifold, the delete plate, and the head... but the idea is spot on.

A more practical way would be to exclude the head, but to try and correct the intake and delete plate.

First... the manifold surface is not flat... so off to the machine shop to get a minimal machining to get it flat


Then back to my friends mill......

Image


Besides where the bit is currently drilling, can you see any other "new" holes?


Here is a bit better perspective...
Image



And finished.... 5 new holes from the back side of the delete plate... each hole needing to be drilled 3 times (once for tapping, once for thread passage, and finally for recessed Allen bolt head)

Image

I can now permanently attach the delete plate to the manifold - and when I do make it permanent I'll use red FIPG to seal the two.


Prior to making them permanent, I'll need to add some anchor points inside the manifold, and the delete plate for the filler to affix too.



So... here is the idea....

Image

The black dots are small random drillings about 1mm in depth, the "T" is a small flat head screw embedded in the deepest part of the correction



and from another perspective... the red arrow shows where I'll drill for the flat head screw, the red dots are the 1mm deep random drillings for anchoring.

Image

The green "slice" inside shows the significance of the change.



LOTS more to come......... :shock:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: OST-028: Redline it baby....

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:27 am

A familiar view........ maybe not??

Image


A not so familiar view.... Here are both intake ports #1 and #4 mostly prepped for filling....

Image

I still need to do a few drillings into the delete plate.




I'll be using 2 different compounds to do the above "fill job" The first one is called "Splash Zone A-788", it is a 2 part epoxy compound.

Image

If your eyes are good you will read it even sets up under water. I don't need its marine qualities, I do need its strength, its mold-ability, and its relative high temp capability. Although strong, and highly recommended in the advanced engine porting world, it is not fully resistant to fuels.


The 2nd compound I'll be using is POR15 fuel tank sealer as a top coat.

Image

This will fully encapsulate the Spash Zone A-788 and seal it from fuel decay...

For those who read the por15 label reading combustible.... read further - http://qr.absolutecoatings.com/QR-asset ... Sealer.pdf (to those that don't want to read it... once cured the POR15 sealant can withstand 315 degrees continuous, or 450 for 72 hours


a LOT more to come........ :shock:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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oldeskewltoy
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Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: OST-028: Redline it baby....

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:41 am

oldeskewltoy wrote:
I'll be using 2 different compounds to do the above "fill job" The first one is called "Splash Zone A-788", it is a 2 part epoxy compound.

Image

If your eyes are good you will read it even sets up under water. I don't need its marine qualities, I do need its strength, its mold-ability, and its relative high temp capability. Although strong, and highly recommended in the advanced engine porting world, it is not fully resistant to fuels.


a LOT more to come........ :eek:


internets garbage.... research.... research.... research... and then research some more!!! http://lonestarspecialties.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/CARBOLINEA788.pdf

Short version 200 degrees steady, 250 for short periods of time... fail :(

Image


Oh... besides the above tasty tidbit (chart)... I got a response from JB Weld from an email I sent.....

ost email to JBWeld wrote:Customer service rep.....


I'm looking for a heat resistant (300) putty, that will function in an air and fuel(gasoline) environment. I've included a short gif (animated photo) showing what I need to do.

The red dots are small drilled dimples, the single grey dot shows where I'd drill and then fit a screw, or similar threaded shaft as a protruding anchor. The thickness, at its thickest point will be about 7/16"

Thank you for your assistance


Image


JB Weld Customer Service wrote:Dan,

I would use our Original JB Weld (8265s.) Thanks for your inquiry, and good luck with your repair!

Sincerely,

Customer Service
JB Weld



Soooooooooo after all this.... it looks like the original JB Weld, along with the POR15 fuel tank coating...



MORE to come.....
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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oldeskewltoy
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Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: OST-028: Redline it baby....

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:09 pm

Image

Manifold ports 1 and 4 are now filled, the client also asked me if I could supply him with a power brake port, as well as ports for an ignition MAP signal.

Image




oldeskewltoy wrote:the JB Weld is in... BUT.... because the JB Weld is a paste, it doesn't want to cooperate in providing me the shape I want... so I'm stuck using a form to help keep the shape :thumbsdown:


So the form would release, I used wax paper between the form, and the JB Weld, it worked pretty well, releasing, but it caused a few issues as well. The biggest issue is although wrapped tightly around the form, when inserted the wax paper wrinkled and left a less-than desirable surface

Image

This is port 4, and although the wax paper left a less than desirable surface, I contributed a bit to the problem by under filling this port, not by a lot mind you - 1/4-1/2 a teaspoon.... but by under filling I got the surface flaws seen.

For a better example, port #1 was a better fill...

Image

still wax paper flaws, but with more fill, the flaws were easier to blend away.



Image

I was a bit disappointed... until I let perspective show me MY mountain (flaws), was really no more then a molehill... if that.

Perspective... yes, this is just a larger view of the 2nd photo in this post, but look at the center 2 ports... the casting lines are far more significant then the "flaws" left by me....

Image


Now as to the vacuum... my client asked me to supply him with a port for his brake booster, and ports for his ignition MAP. I utilized the delete plate to carry all of these vacuum ports.

Initially I thought I'd tap the port floors for vacuum, and then I remembered this was a carbureted engine and thought better of having the ports in the floor(gasoline environment), so I put them in the delete plate roof instead.

Image

Image

Typically (largeport) the power brake vacuum is pulled off a plenum. No plenum like that with carbs. The smallport applications tap off the #4 intake runner, and that is what I did, but I did this one a bit differently.

I decided on going in from the side based on advice given to me by someone who has researched carb type 4AGs more than I. His reasoning was it allowed for the brake booster port to NOT interfere with linkage, or other hardware associated with carb installations.

Image

The taper drilling is an attempt to minimize any air flow disturbance


Image



I'm just waiting on the valve springs so I can begin re-assembly, and then set cam-valve clearances......


More to come.... :mrgreen:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: OST-028: Redline it baby....

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:58 am

anyone wonder why this wasn't finished.... :?: :?:

Toda springs have been my go to valve spring for the 4AGE, they can handle the lifts and durations of almost ever cam that runs single springs...

BUT....... the client and I have been waiting since before September (mid August actually) for Toda valve springs - 4 MONTHS!! The client ordered these parts through Vivid Racing... we waited... and waited.... I emailed them, and called them. They told us they were on back order... and that they had "personnel issues". I tried to call the US imported Misano Motorsports... but they didn't pick up their phone. Finally I emailed Toda Japan, and although I got no response from Toda, just about 2 weeks later the springs arrived.



Well.... at least now... I can pull this out of the corner, dust off the past 4 months, and get this assembled, and valves adjusted.... so


more to come.... :mrgreen:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

User avatar
oldeskewltoy
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Posts: 1654
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: OST-028: Redline it baby....

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:12 pm

oldeskewltoy wrote:Well.... at least now... I can pull this out of the corner, dust off the past 4 months, and get this assembled....



Image

Short gif... first view is half assembled, 2nd is fully assembled 3rd view is with lifter buckets installed.....


now all I'll need to do is fit the CORRECT shims, under my clients Poncams....



More to come..... :mrgreen:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

User avatar
oldeskewltoy
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Posts: 1654
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: OST-028: Redline it baby....

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:46 pm

oldeskewltoy wrote:
now all I'll need to do is fit the CORRECT shims, under my clients Poncams....



Image

There is a Tomei Poncam, this one is indicated on the box and the cam itself as the intake cam... interesting that the dist drive gear is there.....

The client included all of his shim and bucket assemblies, remember those labelled parts?

oldeskewltoy wrote:Image

Each bag contained a valve, a spring, a retainer, a spring seat, and 2 keepers, a lifter/bucket, and a shim.


I took each shim - carefully cleaned, then measured, then and put into my shim kit. The shims coming out were mostly 2.95mm and 3.00mm with a 2.9 and a 3.05 coming out as well. With freshly machined seats, and many "new" valves, I guessed that I should begin with 2.85mm shims to accommodate the seats and valves being cut.

Here are the initial measurements(intakes): measurements in inches.
"L" = loose, but not quite fitting the next size
"T" = tight, but not quite fitting the next size
1 - .011L
2 - .006T
3 - .008L
4 - .012
5 - .013T
6 - .009
7 - .006
8 - .012

So anyone remember Tomei Poncams intake clearance? How many of the valves need adjusting?



More to come...... :mrgreen:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

User avatar
oldeskewltoy
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Posts: 1654
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: OST-028: Redline it baby....

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:02 pm

Image

Intake side set.... shim kit to right has well over 200 shims Image
most being 2.9, 2.95, and 3.0 Image

This job is requiring a few thinner shims, I'll need to order 2 - 2.65mm shims, and 1 - 2.75mm shim...

about a week out.....


Anyone care to guess which valve I'm measuring, and what size feeler gauge I'm using??


more to come...... :mrgreen:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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