Extinction Of The AE86

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zem
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Extinction Of The AE86

Postby zem » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:14 pm

So right away i'd like to say i'm not trying to call anyone out, i'm sure these are all really cool people. These are just the pics i choose because they're the only ones i had handy in the sea of the internet. I've seen much worse in the past year from people totaling their car only days after getting it after binge watching every season of Initial D. To people who Brag about using and throwing away 5 Corollas in their lifetime.





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So the AE86 will be turning 30 years old soon. The of the original owners who still have these cars are letting them go and getting cars new cars. This means there are some very well kept cars going out on the market for some times hundreds of dollars. Of course this is if someone hasn't already driven by and bought it off the street corner.

So the problem with this is the new buyers are usually kids, who have no previous experience with the AE86. What i mean by that is they have seen initial D, YouTube videos etc. And they have no idea how rare the car they just bought off a 70 year old woman for $700 is. And in some cases unfortunately people know the rarity and just don't care.

Over the past 3 months i've started looking at Instagram, and in that 3 months i've see at least 10 Bone stock AE86 modded up to ether make drift cars or just autoX cars. 3 MONTHS, i don't even look every day. I could come up with over a hundred in a few hours if i really looked.

So what am i getting at with all this... Why do people not just buy a beat up pre-modded SR5 to build a car from instead of an almost museum quality example of a car? I feel like i'm the only one who cares about preserving these cars. I don't know the exact numbers but from what iv'e heard there were only 4000 GT-S ever sent to the US. Of those who many survived the drift slut craze and cash for clunkers? I'm willing to bet there's less than 100 stock GT-S left. If there are any og's who remember if that's right please let me know.

Anyways rant over, Out of my frustration, love, and dedication to these cars i'm starting a company that gets stock or close to stock cars, and restores them with all OEM parts to eventually be sold to responsible buyers. Hopefully not all will be crashed, parted out, and turned into Chef Boyardee Ravioli cans if i can help it. Any leads to cars would be amazing! Thanks for reading.





The examples i was talking about.

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Pretty fast overhaul, 18 weeks only i think from stock. Bunch of suspension, wheels, bumpers, and engine is now toast and getting a 20v replacement. I wouldn't be surprised if it got gutted and caged soon. Overall probably only about 40% still original. Sad thinking everything besides the paint that made this a GT-S is now gone, and there would be no mechanical difference if he started with a SR5.
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#2 Saw this recently, all stock GT-S cut up and scrapped because of a little rust. Guys didn't care at all (;_;)
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WHHHHYYYYYYY
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#savethe86

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby oldeskewltoy » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:00 am

zem wrote: I don't know the exact numbers but from what iv'e heard there were only 4000 GT-S ever sent to the US.


I KNOW this is wrong.... we did this about 10 years ago.... I seem to remember.....

Image

8% of production in 85, and 4% in 86. 87 says 13%, but that could include FX16....
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby Caccomando » Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:20 pm

The red coupe looks especially sad. I know you said little rust but are you sure it wasnt rusted out? Honestly, if the thing was loaded with rust there is a point of no going back and a "part out" to complete another car is logical.

As an owner of two all original 86s I can feel something for this post. I do have some OEM JDM parts though. Alot of which is not installed but some things like rain visors and floor mats are on my cars.

The only thing id like to know is if there really is anyone still finding AE86's from old ladies and men. Or the people selling them that dont know what they have. I got SUPER lucky with mine and yes elderly people did own them but I feel like that pool of consumers is long dried up to get cars from.

By now they probably have got so many offers just going to grocery stores that they let the cars go. We are talking like 1984-87 thats a long time.

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby zem » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:11 pm

oldeskewltoy wrote:
zem wrote: I don't know the exact numbers but from what iv'e heard there were only 4000 GT-S ever sent to the US.


I KNOW this is wrong.... we did this about 10 years ago.... I seem to remember.....

Image

8% of production in 85, and 4% in 86. 87 says 13%, but that could include FX16....

That's reassuring so maybe about 30k total which is still quite rare but a lot more than 4k. What site did you find that info from, can they be trusted?
#savethe86

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby zem » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:15 pm

Caccomando wrote:The red coupe looks especially sad. I know you said little rust but are you sure it wasnt rusted out? Honestly, if the thing was loaded with rust there is a point of no going back and a "part out" to complete another car is logical.

As an owner of two all original 86s I can feel something for this post. I do have some OEM JDM parts though. Alot of which is not installed but some things like rain visors and floor mats are on my cars.

The only thing id like to know is if there really is anyone still finding AE86's from old ladies and men. Or the people selling them that dont know what they have. I got SUPER lucky with mine and yes elderly people did own them but I feel like that pool of consumers is long dried up to get cars from.

By now they probably have got so many offers just going to grocery stores that they let the cars go. We are talking like 1984-87 thats a long time.

I'm fine with doing reversible mods as long as the original parts are kept to be put back in the future. Sadly most of the time people just sell them to make a quick buck. Did you find yours from just driving by? I don't feel like i will ever get that lucky.
#savethe86

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby Deuce Cam » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:58 am

Haha imagine how many were lost to 'cash for clunkers' alone.

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby hachirokufan » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:33 am

They shouldn't have qualified for cash for clunkers. The MPG rating for these was too high. From my understanding of the program, you could only qualify if the car had a lower mpg rating, and the Corolla (SR5 at least) got better mpg than the program allowed.

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby Grant » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:27 pm

I know exactly how you feel. I am honestly surprised people are still trying to use the AE86 as a tuner car. The days of buying Grandma's $500 AE86 are long gone, and parts are becoming very expensive and hard to find.

Even though my AE86 may not be 100% original, I feel I am trying my best to keep it as close to stock as possible, and preserve it well.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9350

When I started the car was at a sort of "turning point" in its life. It would either quickly start to deteriorate, or with some TLC it could be restored to almost new condition. Of course I'm still in the process, but it is getting there.

Anyway, I'm sure there are others out there that are restoring or preserving their AE86. Maybe they just don't go on this forum. :)
Hopefully they are out there because I would like to buy another 100% stock GT-S eventually.

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby ToeKnee805 » Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:04 pm

meh, the days of people finding these in stock condition are slim to none, but i have seen 2 clean ones close to my work. I got mine all 100% bone stock in 2009 from the first owner..

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then did this a week later

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And finally reverted it back to oem color
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Sorry not sorry dude.
Its my car, i bought it to do what i wanted to do with it, and let me enjoy it. The car is meant to have fun in, not garage keep it and wax it every time a dirt spec gets on it. Life is short, and these are toys to play with, so have fun with it; if not let someone else play with it. These cars arent SUPERCARS or some sort of limited edition collector car. Its a fucking Corolla man, no matter how much we love the chassis, its a grocery getter beater car. Dont be a hater because people can come up on a 100% stock clean gts and then tear it up and you cant find anything but shitty craigslist buckets.

Just for shits and giggles i did the same thing to a GTS coupe a few months back: And i plan on beating the **** out of it any chance i get to the track
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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby ae86714 » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:39 pm

There's always gonna be some guy with some thing, or some girl, or a more able body, or whatever, that you swear if YOU had it then it would be much better off.That's life man, best not to go through it wondering why more people don't think like you, or do things the way you see fit. It's easy to picture everyone you disagree with as being complete morons doing it all wrong, it's better to simply understand that's what makes you... YOU.

That being said I am more partial to stock trim as well, but I don't at all wonder why people destroy nice things. People get ideas, and want to see them through. Just take care of your ride and drink some ice tea with Kermit!

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby Grant » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:58 pm

ToeKnee805 wrote:The car is meant to have fun in, not garage keep it and wax it every time a dirt spec gets on it. Life is short, and these are toys to play with, so have fun with it; if not let someone else play with it. These cars arent SUPERCARS or some sort of limited edition collector car. Its a fucking Corolla man, no matter how much we love the chassis, its a grocery getter beater car.

I certainly do not treat mine like a garage queen. I drive it daily along with some spirited drives too, but I don't trash it.

I'm not sure exactly what zem is trying to say, but if you make an effort to take care of something it will last a lot longer than if you just treat it like garbage, and you can still have fun with it. Also the idea that "it's a grocery getting beater car" is the reason there are none left.

When all the Takumi wannabes finish off what is left of the available AE86s, the owners who took care of theirs will have the last laugh. :lol:

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby ToeKnee805 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:11 am

You should be stoked on the takumi wannabes, they make the value of your car go up. Let people trash them, in the end it benefits you guys.
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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby zem » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:31 am

ToeKnee805 wrote:meh, the days of people finding these in stock condition are slim to none, but i have seen 2 clean ones close to my work. I got mine all 100% bone stock in 2009 from the first owner..

Image
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then did this a week later

Image
Image

And finally reverted it back to oem color
Image

Sorry not sorry dude.
Its my car, i bought it to do what i wanted to do with it, and let me enjoy it. The car is meant to have fun in, not garage keep it and wax it every time a dirt spec gets on it. Life is short, and these are toys to play with, so have fun with it; if not let someone else play with it. These cars arent SUPERCARS or some sort of limited edition collector car. Its a fucking Corolla man, no matter how much we love the chassis, its a grocery getter beater car. Dont be a hater because people can come up on a 100% stock clean gts and then tear it up and you cant find anything but shitty craigslist buckets.

Just for shits and giggles i did the same thing to a GTS coupe a few months back: And i plan on beating the **** out of it any chance i get to the track
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Your post makes it out to be a cheap disposable car that you thrash then throw away. While that may be true for you that's just your mindset. But people collect stamps, McDonalds toys, heck even MREs. All things that were meant to be trashed. While those might not be the best metaphors, i'm just saying if i found a rare toy or something and i didn't like toys i'd sell it to a collector, not beat the hell out of it with a hammer then post it online. What's wrong with me just wanting people to care for the few hundred that are left ?



Whether people admit it or not AE86 are one of the rarest and most iconic cars out of japan, and frankly to people who know their stuff, the entire world. They're 30 years old it's about time where people flip the switch and acknowledge the heritage and pedigree that the AE86 had and starting thinking about the far future. All the Mustang and Camaro guys by this point had every nut and bolt remade for restoration. The nearest thing the 86 has to that is carbon fiber doors and widebody front fenders.



Anyways wasn't trying to rustle your feathers i never infringe on others people property as much as i'd like to. I was just trying to convey the sad state of affairs these cars are in to the people less knowledgeable about there dwindling numbers. You seem to be upset over something? Just so were clear i have a widebody GT-S with a Slivertop that i'm building to be a touge car. And a Mint GT-S that i'm preserving for history but still DRIVES, and i wax it to because no matter what you think not caring for your car isn't edgy or cool...

Thing is i basically saved my touge GT-S from being scrapped, it was completely modded when i bought it with a horrible body and everything unoriginal. So me choosing that car instead of a mint one saved 2 cars from ultimate doom. Best of both worlds right? Anyways even if i was like you and didn't give a flying sh*t about stock this, original that i'd simply just take the stock car which is always more valuable than one modded in similar condition no matter how much $$$ was put in it. Then sell the stock car to someone like me who will care for it, then use all the money i just made to buy a SR5 or something that needs some work and have thousands left over for parts. = Profit
#savethe86

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby ToeKnee805 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:57 pm

So we should celebrate and acknowledge the pedigree and racing heritage of the 86 by not racing them or modifying them to their full potential? Ok.

By that logic John russakoff, Alex Pfeiffer, and taka aono should be shot dead. F20 swaps, watts rear ends, turbo 2az. Turbo k20.. and those guys do more for the hardcore 86 community than anyone else here combined. I stand my ground let people do what they want with the chassis the more we tear em up the more your garage queens are worth. Win win for everyone.

/end thread
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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby zem » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:57 pm

ToeKnee805 wrote:So we should celebrate and acknowledge the pedigree and racing heritage of the 86 by not racing them or modifying them to their full potential? Ok.

By that logic John russakoff, Alex Pfeiffer, and taka aono should be shot dead. F20 swaps, watts rear ends, turbo 2az. Turbo k20.. and those guys do more for the hardcore 86 community than anyone else here combined. I stand my ground let people do what they want with the chassis the more we tear em up the more your garage queens are worth. Win win for everyone.

/end thread

You misunderstand i'm perfectly fine with the 100k+ already modded and beat cars being built just not the few hundred original ones that are left. And no i'm not selfish and just care about making a profit, i'd actually PAY money not have them torn up, which is the entire point i'm trying to make.
#savethe86

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby CloudStrife » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:45 am

I just want to say that the car culture with these RWD corollas, from my experience, is much better than anything else out there. For example, the S-chassis community is really annoying. Much more so than AE88, 92, or 82.

These cars are not like S13s/14s. You usually can't just buy one and drive away. You can do that for a lot of Nissans and other drift tastic cars. It takes so much work, money, time, and effort to restore these cars that usually the type of demographic of someone who owns these cars is not parallel to that of a dori kid, or someone who just destroys cars.

This is all my personal opinion, but I like owning a Toyota in general. I've had Subaru, Honda, Mazda, Nissan, etc. etc. and even though parts are harder to come by, especially for LHD, it makes for some similar owner tastes. There are so many cool people that I've met through classifieds, Ebay, on here and other places where they will just talk about cars.

Who cares if it's old? I'm going to enjoy these cars while parts are available (you can still buy a shi* ton of parts through the dealer), and have my fun. When these cars get realistically unfeasible to keep, I'll buy myself an FR-S once the depreciation comes down and I get older.

You guys also have to remember that when Toyota shipped these cars to the states, they were not money makers in the eyes of the dealership. Japan was making a killing selling the MR2 and it was in high demand.

Lastly, I don't think it's fun to buy a completely stock car, no matter how rare it is. I'd rather find an SR5 shell and go from there, It's more fun to me to MAKE something stock than PURCHASE something stock. But different strokes for different folks, and maybe my own personal philosophy will change as I get older. Also, I have moved around the country a lot, and have found that WHERE you live, has a direct relationship with the PRICE of JDM cars; whether they are a niche or common chassis. For example, here in Florida, my state is one of the worst offenders of "5k SR5 shells". You will commonly find crap condition GTS hatches in the 6-7k range, possibly not even daily driveable. S13s are a joke: people sell the Single Cam models, drift damage, gutted interior, and broken engine or drivetrain in the 2-3k range.

However, if you live in an area like California, Washington, or Oregon, you can find some AMAZING deals on cars that are in great condition. I also search all over the United States for cars frequently through Craigslist, and you can find stock, mint, low-mileage cars for dirt cheap by some guy in places like Kansas, Arizona, etc.

I also agree with both posters above. In my eyes, to be a true car enthusiast, you have to appreciate what you have, no matter how it's labeled, or what it's worth. That being said, this is not a supercar, I will agree, and I frequently have to explain to people WHY these cars are so great. Most of America is still stuck around the idea that if a car is not expensive, or doesn't have a huge displacement, it's not worth the money, and that is truly sad. Cars are starting to evolve less as an experience, and more as a mode of transportation. Bluetooth, cupholders, and heated seats are more important. This is why I own the AE88. It is an EXPERIENCE to drive this vehicle.

However, I think there are a lot of those out there who are interested in straight-line power, and highway racing. I am not, I am interested in going back to that first experience in the mountains I had with my little DA9 on chicanes, chinooks, sharp rights, lefts, and downshifting heel-toe, braking exhilaration. But, that is my preference, not everyone's. Car enthusiasm is relative, and I think we should respect everyone and their interests whether they are different or not. LIke I said, I agree with both posters however as I like to restore my car, and use it how it was intended for, as the engineers recorded the chassis limits.

And you really have to take things for what they are worth sometimes. Nissan obviously made the S13 a disposable chassis. That is just the way it is. It's a Datsun with a truck motor, you really have to think about that. It wasn't the R&D and cultivation that an FD, NS-X, or MKV Supra was. I don't think that I would agree the 88/86 chassis was designed with disposable intentions in mind, but it is a 80's Hatchback.

JoeKnee is also correct, in that the amazing feeling of fulfillment is truly appreciated, I believe, when you are a tuner who does something different. The first guy that showed up on BestMotoring (Vtec special?) got laughed at by everyone for putting that motor (F20C?) into the 86. Then they drove it, and although it had an annoying noise were all impressed; even the Spoon-man rambled on about it's application. The guys that do this are the true pioneers, doing something that nobody has done before, more than likely ridiculed in the process, and Ironically ssometimes even establishing the norm for a swap or modification within the community.

It's all relative to what YOU are looking for in a chassis, how MUCH work you are willing to do, and how much CASH you are willing to pay.

Also don't forget that with the amazing advent of 3D printing, we will probably be able to scan a completely stock GTS, or use old schematics to just print the car in the future. Don't get stuck in the past, it's a depressing and dangerous thought process.


Don't lose hope homies :)

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby CloudStrife » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:16 pm

I know I need to shut up, but also remember that when the Corolla GT-S came out in the states, I believe the sticker price was around 26K USD. That is adjusted for inflation.

So as long as you are under 26K, whether doing a full stock restoration, or modifying lightly or heavily, you are still absolutely coming out ahead.

Just because you can't get a GT-S, or even SR5 for pennies like you could in the 90's and the early 2000's, doesn't mean it's that big of a deal you buy one for 3,4,5,6k instead of 500 dollars.

I dunno, we all just love these cars, just let that bond us together lol.

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby TORPARTS » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:22 pm

I did not read everybody's post so excuse me if I missed anything. In this day and age, I like pictures only.

I remember the day I began my company back and everybody told me I was crazy to start a company reproducing parts and restoring ae86......nobody would buy them or need my service.


Those naysayers must be right because I am crazy but I am also buzy with a wait list of over 2 years and reproducing parts is picking up because with foresight we got allot of the molds!!

Peace and happy holidays!
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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby zem » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:19 am

TORPARTS wrote:I did not read everybody's post so excuse me if I missed anything. In this day and age, I like pictures only.

I remember the day I began my company back and everybody told me I was crazy to start a company reproducing parts and restoring ae86......nobody would buy them or need my service.


Those naysayers must be right because I am crazy but I am also buzy with a wait list of over 2 years and reproducing parts is picking up because with foresight we got allot of the molds!!

Peace and happy holidays!

Wow i had no idea anyone was recreating parts, good for you! Did you say you got some original molds? Whats the story behind that?
#savethe86

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby TORPARTS » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:38 pm

Toyota Japan was throwing it away and I told them to pay me to take away from them and they paid me to take it away.

that's the story! arigato!
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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby der3wuste3fuchs » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:07 pm

Torparts is cool and all, but your stuff is mostly out of stock whenever I try and order, and it's not updated on the website -__-.

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby Deuce Cam » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:56 am

I ordered from them once...

Overpriced door panel cups. Faded brown within six months. Plus they charged over $20 for shipping (they're maybe a 7 hour drive from me) and it took 3 weeks. He sent the first class mail (2-3 day at cost of $3.XX - pistage on box. Best part was that it was a flimsy box just barely the size of the part, and no packaging material.

Plus he used to spew derogatory comments on the forum like it was his job..

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby mideng » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:29 am

We're parts broken ?

Was door cups broken? ... did it work? Do you have an alternative place to buy them?

They are used boxes so what... they recycling and keeping the world clean ... no package material who cares as long the product arrives safely
I will buy from them as long it arrives and product works...

Instead of criticizing them ... find a solution can u make it xh a pwr if so do it and we buy from you

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby kiosk » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:18 am

mideng wrote:We're parts broken ?

Was door cups broken? ... did it work? Do you have an alternative place to buy them?

They are used boxes so what... they recycling and keeping the world clean ... no package material who cares as long the product arrives safely
I will buy from them as long it arrives and product works...

Instead of criticizing them ... find a solution can u make it xh a pwr if so do it and we buy from you

Own up to this and defend yourself if you feel he's wrong. Don't hide behind your other screen name for this.

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby CloudStrife » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:29 am

LOL. Just because you might be the ONLY source for a certain part, doesn't give you, in my opinion, cart blanche to decide what the quality is, and how we should respect that decision. Used boxes don't really matter to me..

Most of us on this forum put a lot of attention to detail, and above all, money into our projects, guys who started from humble beginnings should respect that and not cheap out on things.

That said, I just put another order in through them :P

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby CloudStrife » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:29 am

oldeskewltoy wrote:
zem wrote: I don't know the exact numbers but from what iv'e heard there were only 4000 GT-S ever sent to the US.


I KNOW this is wrong.... we did this about 10 years ago.... I seem to remember.....

Image

8% of production in 85, and 4% in 86. 87 says 13%, but that could include FX16....


Wait a sex. If I'm reading that right, then there are USDM diesel corollas?

I thought the U.S. didn't get any diesel motors from Japan..

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Re: Extinction Of The AE86

Postby ToeKnee805 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:10 pm

So "mideng" who is TORparts, is defending TORparts like if he was a customer? thats funny.
1986 Corolla GT-S -- Unmolested -- Now Resto Project
1985 Corolla GT-S -- Turbo Levin Track Car
1982 Corolla 1.8 -- Sitting collecting dust

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