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[Ava92]

thanks for the help

[yoshimitsuspeed]

I have been waiting for someone to post with more personal experience. I am more of a turbo guy myself but I have studied this subject quite extensively.
Naturally I have to ask if you would consider forced induction. I have a BT running stock 11:1 plus a turbo @ 7 PSI and I have to say that it is my favorite setup to date. I am also confidant it would walk on all but the highest level race built NA 4AGEs.

Now if that's not an option here are my thoughts.
I would try to keep the VVT. This will help idle, power curve and driveability. This is the biggest cam I know of that still supports VVT. http://matrixgarage.com/products/kelford-194-c-camshaft
I like to run springs made by the cam manufacturer or recommended by them. Others on here might be able to make other recommendations based off their experience.
I can get Kelford springs recommended for the above cams as well as the rest of their line.
I would run the highest compression possible but that will come down to how comfortable you or your tuner are pushing the limits and how tight a margin of error you want to play with.
Personally if this was my build I would aim for about 13:1 with a stock headgasket.
I can get custom pistons made specifically for your application from either WIseco or JE. I have a really good deal worked out on the Wiseco's.
Oldschooltoy always gets pissed at me because I always tell people that head work is one of the last places to spend money. This is especially true on a boosted build. In your case though this would be a main focus. I would send my head to OST or someone who has extensive experience with PNP work on the 4AGE.
I can get oversize valves as well. I'm not personally familiar with how much benefit they are on the 20v though.
http://matrixgarage.com/store/20v-4age- ... d-blacktop

I can't help you much on engine management. I know a little bit about megasquirt and if you have the time to build it and time to learn it I think it's a great option. The DIYPNP is a little less work but still required some assembly. The MSPNP comes ready to plug in and start tuning so the extra cost could be worth it to some. I know some of the higher end unit have some advantages of their own but I just don't know much about them.

Now your comment about raising the redline while maintaining reliability does create a bit of an issue. RPMs are one of the hardest thing on a motor and the more time it spends spinning at higher speeds the more quickly it will need work.
Now if you raise the redline but rarely take it up there then you may not significantly effect reliability but the problem is that with a build like this that's where the fun power is going to be so you will want to spend more time there.
At the very least I would highly recommend crank cab ladders. http://matrixgarage.com/products/tomei- ... oyota-4age
This will strengthen a known weak spot on the 4AGE.
I do know the stock rods can take a good bit over stock redline but I'm not sure exactly how much. At a point you would be better off stepping up to something stronger.
I can get Carrillo rods. They aren't cheap but they are pretty badass.

I would probably run an oil cooler. If you decided to feel it out you could start with an oil temp gauge. I have heard unusually mixed reviews from people with gauges. One person will say their oil never gets too hot with no cooler and in a very hot climate. Another person will come along and say that their temps get dangerously high on cooler days even with an oil cooler.
If you decided to go with an oil cooler I would highly recommend a thermostatically controlled valve so it only opens once it's up to temp.
This one isn't cheap but it's pretty nice.
http://matrixgarage.com/products/oil-co ... ine-size34

Your stock radiator should be fine.

[Ava92]

thanks for the help

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Thanks for your info here. I was expecting more people to chime in; i guess the 4age is really an old engine even on its own website.

As for the FI route, i appreciate the power and the experience but for this particular car I want to keep it NA, even if that means spending more for less power.

I would run the highest compression possible but that will come down to how comfortable you or your tuner are pushing the limits and how tight a margin of error you want to play with.
Personally if this was my build I would aim for about 13:1 with a stock headgasket.
I can get custom pistons made specifically for your application from either WIseco or JE. I have a really good deal worked out on the Wiseco's.

Can you elaborate on this a bit more? What else would I need to support a 13:1 CR? What do you mean about the tuner pushing the limits, avoiding running too lean? I do have some great tuners in my city for HKS, AEM and Apexi ecu's, those can run the 20v right? I don't want to learn megasquirt I would rather pay someone for some dyno time.

What else do you know about besides the crank cab ladders that can help high RPm reliability? Head stud kit?

What will be the advantage of new con rods? Are they lighter than the BT rods, or is durability more of a concern?

Thanks again, anyone else who has gone the 20v NA route please feel free to post

Higher compression increases the chances for detonation. It also narrows the margin of what you can get away with.

Let's say on a stock largeport with 9.4:1 compression.
You could run any octane and be fine. You could advance the timing 5 degrees and be fine. You could run a little lean somewhere and be fine.
Now you put in SP 10.3:1 pistons. Now you probably want to run a mid grade fuel. It would probably take you running low grade fuel and really advancing the timing to do serious damage though.

Now you step up to 13" 1. Now you need to run premium at the very minimum. If you run it a little lean you get detonation and blow a hole in the piston. You advance the timing 1 degree too far and you get detonation and blow a hole in your piston.

When you are tuning at that level you will want a wideband, pyrometer and some sort of knock monitoring system and you will need to know how to read them. Or your tuner will if you go that route.
As the compression goes up the less and less you can get away with and your margin for error becomes much smaller on all fronts.
Bigger cams move your VE curve up in the RPMs which reduces cylinder pressure in the lower RPMs. This will make your car less likely to detonate. So 13:1 on stock cams and pump gas may not even be possible or if it is it would be tuning on the razors edge. Run some 290-340 cams and 13:1 may not be too much trouble.

I am surprised to see so little activity but I feel like it dropped a lot after switching over to the new board.
I actually see very few posts these days about higher level NA tuning. I think largely because the dollar to gain ratio at this point is so bad and there are so many other options that cost less and gain more.
That is the reason I would never play with trying to make NA power on a 4AGE. You drop $7k on performance parts and still need to rap it out to redline just to keep up with some mom and 6 kids in a Caravan.

[totta crolla]

If it were me I would go for stock blacktop with properly mapped programmable ecu, possibly fit cams up around the 280 degree mark if there were enough budget after doing the following:
Close ratio gearbox, LSD and lower final drive. (No point having an engine that can rev to 9000rpm if you can only use 3 gears)

[Ava92]

appreciate it

[totta crolla]

see here:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6052

Expect first gear to be quite high something around 40mph

[gaijin_rokurunner]

If you want to see an extensive expensive 20v build check out my log viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1026 I can help you put together a pretty good 200hp setup for under your budget send me an email nuffsaid02@aol.com....N/A on this engine is not cheap, my log is a testament to that but now that theres a lot of parts I engineered at my disposal if I were to redo my whole setup it would probably save me close to half the cost...dont be fooled with some of this commercial junk on the market... you wont see any big hp number 20v using it...Kelford is also OK of a cam but theres nobody making substantial numbers with their cams either for a reason....

[oldeskewltoy]

Why 10k? Even most of the real racing 4AGEs are only touching 10 grand these days.... they don't have to spin them to 14k to make power anymore.......

If you want an engine to survive @ 10,000 rpm you will need a few things for sure...

TRD crank... yes an OEM crank might get to 10,000, but for sustained high RPM you'll need a TRD, or similar aftermarket crank - $2200 and up

TRD or Carillio or other premium rod supplier... OEM rods are too heavy to survive @ 10,000 rpm for long - $600 and up

crank ladder MIGHT do... but it is far better/stronger to have cross braces machined into the block @ #2 and #4 main bearings - $600 (not including other block prep)


Dry sump oiling... the stock oil pump is very good... but not designed to operate in a 10k rpm climate. - $2500 and up

if you decide the 20V just wont get there... I have some Atlantic, and other 4AG race heads for sale........

[gaijin_rokurunner]

for 7g you wont get anywhere near that goal realistically and I will tell you now 10000 and up engines will require bearing changes every so many miles depending on how long your in that area....lastly u need high compression and cams to get power at those kinds of revs which involve lots of money and engine work....