4age on bike carbs
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:08 am
My engine got the knocky rods. Want to do something entertaining with the new one I'm building. Thinking about bike carbs from a kawasaki zx6r. Should be fine with my mild cams. I know many people think carbs are not a smart mod etc. need constant fiddling and adjustments etc. I agree with all that, but I want the carb experience under my belt as well. My car is a 1987 mr2.
I'm in the possession of a early bigport (bluetop) map sesnored, non-egr ecu, dizzy, wiring harness, etc. from an at160 european celica. I have all the parts except the map sensor, which I am having a lot of trouble finding. Will any toyota 1 bar map sensor work? Any known Toyota I can get this off?
For now I want to run the bike carbs with the stock ecu. Will get msd or some other standalone ignition later.
I'm thinking about how to connect this.
There are three sensors on the intake manifold:
1. MAP - Is MAP the same as AFM in the sense that the engine will not start without a signal from it? Can I hook it up to the carb intake manifold that I will get fabricated. I think I will need the vacuum balancing thing for this.
2. Intake air temperature sensor. Do I need to plug this too into the carb intake manifold somehow as well? Or can I ignore it?
3. TPS. How will the ECU behave without a TPS connection?
The other thing is the fuel. Here I'm thinking about getting the tank out and removing the efi fuel pump and installing a fuel pump from the same bike that I get the carbs from. Any better suggestions for this that don't involve a million fuel lines and fuel pressure regulators and what not?
------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a big update to the thread. I got all the main parts so here's some picture and information:
My engine has failed. I now know why, and the reason is super lame. My engine failed because I sandblasted my engine block and my diy washing was not enough to get all the blasting media out. Laaaame. So life has given me lemons, and I have a personal moto for situations like this. When life gives you lemons…you make a 4age powered by motorcycle carbs!
I recently rebuilt my engine and I’m really not in the mood to rebuild it again and do everything the same way the first time round. It’s too soon. So I decided to use this failure as an opportunity to do something entertaining. After a bit of research I decided to do a bike carb conversion to my 4age engine. Why? I never drove a carbed engine, and I want that experience for some reason. Carbs sound amazing on a 4age. It will look cool. MPG will suffer, I don't care this is not my daily.
I plan to do it using the stock ECU, but not a stock AFM ECU because that is impossible. I plan to get a MAP ECU, a MAP harness and a MAP sensor along with 4 taps in each of my bike carb intake manifolds that will then lead to a vacuum balancing bar and then to the MAP sensor. This is the only way to reliably ensure a stable signal to the MAP sensor. I plan to go with a standalone ignition controller later on.
Fuel will be supplied via a motorcycle fuel pump. That means I will need to drop the fuel tank (this is the job I am most afraid of), remove the stock fuel pump and install a bike fuel pump. Why? The stock fuel pump runs at 37 psi I think, the carbs need like 3-5 psi. The other option is getting a fuel pressure regulator, more hoses, gauges, etc. I prefer the simplicity and reliability of an easily replacable bike fuel pump that's also really cheap and readily available. After putting it all together and starting it up tuning will be done using an AEM x-series wideband air fuel ratio gauge.
Here are the parts:
I got a complete bike carb conversion kit from a company in the UK called DanST engineering that specialized in bike carb conversions. I initially thought about doing the whole thing DIY, you know sourcing a set of bike carbs from a junkyard, welding up a manifold myself, etc. But after I considered the time and patience I will need for all of that I decided to drop the DIY route for once and get things that are professionally made, look right and are compatible with everything else. Here's some pictures.
In the pictures you can see the complete kit. The carbs are 37mm HondaCBR600 Keihin carbs. Many people use Yamaha R1 carbs but apparently these smaller ones are actually better for the 1.6 4AGE. The intake manifold is tig welded aluminum and looks amazing imo. The kit also contains a bike fuel pump, it's nothing special but it will work and be super easy to replace if needed. Supplied it also a intake manifold gasket, fluoro line silicone hoses that won't deteriorate in contact with fuel and the vacuum balancing bar. The kit is definitely a high quality product and I am super pleased with it. It's also super convenient that the carbs come ultrasonically cleaned and with approximate jetting so you can at least start the car and get the carbs tuned. Only thing I can complain about is the sillicone hoses and the clamps for them. The hoses could be a bigger diamtere because installation was a bit of a pain, and the clamps should be smaller, so there isn't any overhand and it looks
perfect.
Here's an unboxing video:
https://youtu.be/HTZ9xo1LVEA
Thinking ahead I also got a lightweight crank pulley and some injector plugs from Techno toy tuning. The crank pulley is the thinking ahead part because it will make it easy to setup a crank position sensor for a standalone ignitionc controller later on. Plus it looks cool and should remove a bit of the rotational mass to make the engine spin more freely. I know there's a whole debate about lightweight crank pulleys and how they allegedly destroy engines. That debate will never be put rest and I would not like to start it here. I decided to call my installation of lightweight crank pulley an experiment that may eventually contribute to putting the debate to rest? if the engine fails I hope there will be proof that the pulley is culprit. The injector plugs are a nice solution to the holes left after removing the injectors. I think interference fit freeze plugs are stupid for this and prefer the safety and simplicity of these plugs.
Here's some pictures:
Here's an unboxing video:
https://youtu.be/Oc9AaPe9RMw
https://youtu.be/nykRt6dav7s
Another piece of the puzzle is the AEM x-series air fuel ratio gauge. A no-brainer for me considering AEM's R&D, reputation and the fastest response at this price range.
Here's a picture of the gauge:
And some more unboxing:
https://youtu.be/6_PWA4DhFkk
Here's my blog post about the whole conversion with a few more details and links to the products: http://www.driving4answers.com/bike-carb-conversion/
So, that's the plan and the parts. I have already bought new crank and conrod bearings, 0.25 O/S for my new rebuild and have ground down the crank 0.25. New aisin oil pump is on it's way. Nothing else has been seriously damaged. Will replace some seals out of pre-caution.
When I put the engine together it will be time to install the AEM gauge and drop the tank to do the fuel pump business. What are the best practices for installing the gauge in case of the AW11? Which is the best way to route the wires and connect the gauge harness to the car?
Any good tips for dropping the tank. I am super afraid of that disgusting job.
I hope this will be a fun one
I'm in the possession of a early bigport (bluetop) map sesnored, non-egr ecu, dizzy, wiring harness, etc. from an at160 european celica. I have all the parts except the map sensor, which I am having a lot of trouble finding. Will any toyota 1 bar map sensor work? Any known Toyota I can get this off?
For now I want to run the bike carbs with the stock ecu. Will get msd or some other standalone ignition later.
I'm thinking about how to connect this.
There are three sensors on the intake manifold:
1. MAP - Is MAP the same as AFM in the sense that the engine will not start without a signal from it? Can I hook it up to the carb intake manifold that I will get fabricated. I think I will need the vacuum balancing thing for this.
2. Intake air temperature sensor. Do I need to plug this too into the carb intake manifold somehow as well? Or can I ignore it?
3. TPS. How will the ECU behave without a TPS connection?
The other thing is the fuel. Here I'm thinking about getting the tank out and removing the efi fuel pump and installing a fuel pump from the same bike that I get the carbs from. Any better suggestions for this that don't involve a million fuel lines and fuel pressure regulators and what not?
------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a big update to the thread. I got all the main parts so here's some picture and information:
My engine has failed. I now know why, and the reason is super lame. My engine failed because I sandblasted my engine block and my diy washing was not enough to get all the blasting media out. Laaaame. So life has given me lemons, and I have a personal moto for situations like this. When life gives you lemons…you make a 4age powered by motorcycle carbs!
I recently rebuilt my engine and I’m really not in the mood to rebuild it again and do everything the same way the first time round. It’s too soon. So I decided to use this failure as an opportunity to do something entertaining. After a bit of research I decided to do a bike carb conversion to my 4age engine. Why? I never drove a carbed engine, and I want that experience for some reason. Carbs sound amazing on a 4age. It will look cool. MPG will suffer, I don't care this is not my daily.
I plan to do it using the stock ECU, but not a stock AFM ECU because that is impossible. I plan to get a MAP ECU, a MAP harness and a MAP sensor along with 4 taps in each of my bike carb intake manifolds that will then lead to a vacuum balancing bar and then to the MAP sensor. This is the only way to reliably ensure a stable signal to the MAP sensor. I plan to go with a standalone ignition controller later on.
Fuel will be supplied via a motorcycle fuel pump. That means I will need to drop the fuel tank (this is the job I am most afraid of), remove the stock fuel pump and install a bike fuel pump. Why? The stock fuel pump runs at 37 psi I think, the carbs need like 3-5 psi. The other option is getting a fuel pressure regulator, more hoses, gauges, etc. I prefer the simplicity and reliability of an easily replacable bike fuel pump that's also really cheap and readily available. After putting it all together and starting it up tuning will be done using an AEM x-series wideband air fuel ratio gauge.
Here are the parts:
I got a complete bike carb conversion kit from a company in the UK called DanST engineering that specialized in bike carb conversions. I initially thought about doing the whole thing DIY, you know sourcing a set of bike carbs from a junkyard, welding up a manifold myself, etc. But after I considered the time and patience I will need for all of that I decided to drop the DIY route for once and get things that are professionally made, look right and are compatible with everything else. Here's some pictures.
In the pictures you can see the complete kit. The carbs are 37mm HondaCBR600 Keihin carbs. Many people use Yamaha R1 carbs but apparently these smaller ones are actually better for the 1.6 4AGE. The intake manifold is tig welded aluminum and looks amazing imo. The kit also contains a bike fuel pump, it's nothing special but it will work and be super easy to replace if needed. Supplied it also a intake manifold gasket, fluoro line silicone hoses that won't deteriorate in contact with fuel and the vacuum balancing bar. The kit is definitely a high quality product and I am super pleased with it. It's also super convenient that the carbs come ultrasonically cleaned and with approximate jetting so you can at least start the car and get the carbs tuned. Only thing I can complain about is the sillicone hoses and the clamps for them. The hoses could be a bigger diamtere because installation was a bit of a pain, and the clamps should be smaller, so there isn't any overhand and it looks
perfect.
Here's an unboxing video:
https://youtu.be/HTZ9xo1LVEA
Thinking ahead I also got a lightweight crank pulley and some injector plugs from Techno toy tuning. The crank pulley is the thinking ahead part because it will make it easy to setup a crank position sensor for a standalone ignitionc controller later on. Plus it looks cool and should remove a bit of the rotational mass to make the engine spin more freely. I know there's a whole debate about lightweight crank pulleys and how they allegedly destroy engines. That debate will never be put rest and I would not like to start it here. I decided to call my installation of lightweight crank pulley an experiment that may eventually contribute to putting the debate to rest? if the engine fails I hope there will be proof that the pulley is culprit. The injector plugs are a nice solution to the holes left after removing the injectors. I think interference fit freeze plugs are stupid for this and prefer the safety and simplicity of these plugs.
Here's some pictures:
Here's an unboxing video:
https://youtu.be/Oc9AaPe9RMw
https://youtu.be/nykRt6dav7s
Another piece of the puzzle is the AEM x-series air fuel ratio gauge. A no-brainer for me considering AEM's R&D, reputation and the fastest response at this price range.
Here's a picture of the gauge:
And some more unboxing:
https://youtu.be/6_PWA4DhFkk
Here's my blog post about the whole conversion with a few more details and links to the products: http://www.driving4answers.com/bike-carb-conversion/
So, that's the plan and the parts. I have already bought new crank and conrod bearings, 0.25 O/S for my new rebuild and have ground down the crank 0.25. New aisin oil pump is on it's way. Nothing else has been seriously damaged. Will replace some seals out of pre-caution.
When I put the engine together it will be time to install the AEM gauge and drop the tank to do the fuel pump business. What are the best practices for installing the gauge in case of the AW11? Which is the best way to route the wires and connect the gauge harness to the car?
Any good tips for dropping the tank. I am super afraid of that disgusting job.
I hope this will be a fun one