Future Build Components

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: Future Build Components

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed May 11, 2016 10:18 am

Alex170984 wrote:Is there any way of determining the CC of the head? I'm pretty sure like the block it has not been touched, i.e. shaved, so with the height of head, can that shed any light on it? Or do I need an engineer to do a volume test on it?

The head CC is going to determine what thickness my HG needs to be for my final CR which I hope to be around 11.5



an un-machined head measures 116mm thick (4.567"). If the head is uncut, the chambers are likely to be 36cc
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Wed May 11, 2016 8:10 pm

Use your head gasket to set your squish gap, not your compression ratio.

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Thu May 12, 2016 11:04 am

I've found a very good website in the UK that sells CP pistons.

Looking at 12.0:1 CP pistons for £520 which is cheaper than what I can import them for...

That coupled with a 1mm head gasket will bring me down to 11.75:1 ish which is a good CR for my current cams or the poncams I'm also looking at.

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu May 12, 2016 12:06 pm

Alex170984 wrote:I've found a very good website in the UK that sells CP pistons.

Looking at 12.0:1 CP pistons for £520 which is cheaper than what I can import them for...

That coupled with a 1mm head gasket will bring me down to 11.75:1 ish which is a good CR for my current cams or the poncams I'm also looking at.


What specifications are these pistons designed around?? (regular valves, or O/S?) What is the crown volume?
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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Thu May 12, 2016 12:40 pm

You mean you don't know? Lol

As far as I can see they are for standard valves.

Crown volume is 4.5

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu May 12, 2016 2:52 pm

Alex170984 wrote:You mean you don't know? Lol

As far as I can see they are for standard valves.

Crown volume is 4.5



SC-7654? pretty big..... plug in your specs.... http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html I seem to get over 12:1 using 1mm gasket. Depending on what you end up with as a chamber volume, I'd be looking at a bit less crown volume... around 2.5cc allows you some leeway in the other specs
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Thu May 12, 2016 3:20 pm

What numbers did you add in?

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu May 12, 2016 5:28 pm

Alex170984 wrote:What numbers did you add in?

Bore = 82mm
Stroke = 77mm
Gasket 1.0 x 83mm
Chamber = 36cc
Deck = 0.0
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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Fri May 13, 2016 1:09 am

oh, I stuck with the 0.2 deck

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby oldeskewltoy » Fri May 13, 2016 8:57 am

Alex170984 wrote:oh, I stuck with the 0.2 deck


triple check... .2mm = .008" I've never seen a deck that deep, more common is .002-.003, but you are going to machine the block so it accepts a metal gasket... so plan on a zero deck.
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Re: Future Build Components

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Sat May 14, 2016 11:06 am

Refresh my memory. Are you set on going CP? I am pretty sure I can get you our Arias pistons for significantly less. Might be able to get you the CP for less but I'd have to know how much you would be paying on your end.

The CP shelf pistons have a compression height of 30.6832mm so they will stick up about .2mm above deck. I assume that's where Alex was getting his deck figure from.

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Sun May 15, 2016 3:16 pm

I Had my deck height measured and its 0.25mm

Yoshi, I'd love your Pistons but the import duty will kill it.

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Sun May 15, 2016 4:41 pm

That's why I was curious what your duties would be. £520 comes out to about $750 USD. Buying my pistons for $480 would leave $270 for duties.
I sell the CP pistons for about $600. This company has to be paying duties on them so it seems like duties can't be that much. Any way you cut it $500 pistons plus duties should be cheaper than $600 pistons plus duties. Unless they can import with lower duties. In that case you might see if they were interested in trying to get you my pistons.
If that deal ends up being the best deal then by all means go for it. I just don't get how it would be.

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon May 16, 2016 8:43 am

Alex170984 wrote:I Had my deck height measured and its 0.25mm




assuming you mean the piston is below the blocks deck by .25mm. Know it is simplified... but better to know.
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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Mon May 16, 2016 11:34 am

Yes that's what I meant.

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Mon May 16, 2016 11:48 am

yoshimitsuspeed wrote:That's why I was curious what your duties would be. £520 comes out to about $750 USD. Buying my pistons for $480 would leave $270 for duties.
I sell the CP pistons for about $600. This company has to be paying duties on them so it seems like duties can't be that much. Any way you cut it $500 pistons plus duties should be cheaper than $600 pistons plus duties. Unless they can import with lower duties. In that case you might see if they were interested in trying to get you my pistons.
If that deal ends up being the best deal then by all means go for it. I just don't get how it would be.


Yoshi your website states $600 for the pistons plus the cheapest postage which is $106.15 so that's $706.15 already then i'll be done on the import duty which will be around $45 plus VAT again which'll be $172

So in total the cost of buying your CP pistons will be $923 = £641

Or I can go to a UK based company who'll charge me £520 delivered to my doorstep.

Unless you can come over here for £121 and build my engine for me then I'll get them from you lol

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Tue May 17, 2016 3:44 am

It seems that I have 10.1:1 bigport pistons which I originally thought to be 9.4:1 so that changes my idea completely.

Almost negates the need of expense on new pistons

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Tue May 17, 2016 4:09 am

When I saw your pics in the for sale section, I was like "ahh..."

Here's a pic I saved of the 10.1:1 pistons, which also shows their OEM part number:

Image
'88 Corolla All-Trac

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Tue May 17, 2016 4:25 am

Thanks mate

I've been told the engine was removed from a 1985 Corolla GT which is the euro spec.

So many different bloody types! lol

You guys may save me up to £1000!!

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue May 17, 2016 8:20 am

Alex170984 wrote:Thanks mate

I've been told the engine was removed from a 1985 Corolla GT which is the euro spec.

So many different bloody types! lol

You guys may save me up to £1000!!


just a heads up.... those are the 1/2mm O/S piston part numbers.

My 140 whp engine is running those exact pistons (photo is mine - ;) ) with those pistons there is no need to sell the rods or crank.
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Wed May 18, 2016 1:47 am

oldeskewltoy wrote:
Alex170984 wrote:Thanks mate

I've been told the engine was removed from a 1985 Corolla GT which is the euro spec.

So many different bloody types! lol

You guys may save me up to £1000!!


just a heads up.... those are the 1/2mm O/S piston part numbers.

My 140 whp engine is running those exact pistons (photo is mine - ;) ) with those pistons there is no need to sell the rods or crank.


The oversize pistons or the pistons I have?

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed May 18, 2016 7:54 am

Alex170984 wrote:
oldeskewltoy wrote:
Alex170984 wrote:Thanks mate

I've been told the engine was removed from a 1985 Corolla GT which is the euro spec.

So many different bloody types! lol

You guys may save me up to £1000!!


just a heads up.... those are the 1/2mm O/S piston part numbers.

My 140 whp engine is running those exact pistons (photo is mine - ;) ) with those pistons there is no need to sell the rods or crank.


The oversize pistons or the pistons I have?



(13103-16030) - 13101 = standard piston, 13103 = O/S piston
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Wed May 18, 2016 8:02 am

I need to weigh up if the smaller rods, smaller crank and 18mm pin pistons are a better alternative to spending money on bigger 20mm pin pistons and using the 42mm crank. I can get stock 42mm rods easily for £50 from a reliable source so that's not an issue.

Is there anyway I could have the 18mm pin pistons bored out to suit the bigger rods and have a floating pin installed? Or has that already been suggested? I'm a bit lost now lol

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed May 18, 2016 9:00 am

Alex170984 wrote:I need to weigh up if the smaller rods, smaller crank and 18mm pin pistons are a better alternative to spending money on bigger 20mm pin pistons and using the 42mm crank. I can get stock 42mm rods easily for £50 from a reliable source so that's not an issue.

Is there anyway I could have the 18mm pin pistons bored out to suit the bigger rods and have a floating pin installed? Or has that already been suggested? I'm a bit lost now lol



remember... in the end this is YOUR project... we can only offer you advice.

It is kind of funny that you begin with, "I need to weigh...." because that is the advantage to the 40/18 crank/rod/piston combination... a mass savings of well over 2 kilos!

You can have the 40/18 rods opened up to accept a 20mm wrist pin, but opening it larger to accept a bushing, that will likely mean the small end is too thin. Again, a fixed wrist pin worked, and although not as good as a full floating pin, there are many 4AGE engines making good power on fixed pins.
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Thu May 19, 2016 1:20 am

Oh yeah I am not being ungrateful, I fully appreciate the advice given and I am not ignoring what you are saying.

Just trying to work out what's for the best is all.

What is the difference in weights between the two blocks?

I didn't mean bore the rod end out, I meant bore the piston out to suit the 20mm pin?

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu May 19, 2016 7:43 am

Alex170984 wrote:What is the difference in weights between the two blocks?

I didn't mean bore the rod end out, I meant bore the piston out to suit the 20mm pin?


block mass isn't the typical question.... I'm sure the 7 rib block is a bit heavier, but the 7 rib block is substantially stronger/stiffer. You do know you can bolt your 40mm rod journal crank (rods and pistons) into your 7 rib block....

I've not heard of boring the pistons wrist pin bores before, but the 20mm rods can use any of the 3 pistons: largeport - 9.4:1, 10:1, and smallport - 10.3:1.
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Thu May 19, 2016 9:00 am

I don't have a 7-rib block which is spare. Currently have it in my MR2 which I will not be using. Need a back up car which is the MR2 to my Peugeot.

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Alex170984 » Wed May 25, 2016 1:27 am

I've found some 10.3:1 pistons in the US from a Geo Prizm for $154 - not OEM obviously but seems very cheap. I did put NPR pistons in my current engine and have had no issues with those...wonder if they are worth a punt...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TC2989-020-DOME ... Xd&vxp=mtr

Any ideas?

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed May 25, 2016 9:29 am

$150 for those may seem like a good price, and it likely would be, if you couldn't also find them for about $80 cheaper if you keep looking.... Skippy has a set in her... I think I paid $60 for my set....
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: Future Build Components

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Wed May 25, 2016 3:59 pm

Those do look like good quality. Clevite is a good brand as far as I know (and made in the USA, surprising).

I also have a set of non-OEM, "OEM-spec" smallport pistons. Their quality looks decent, enough that I planned to send them out to be coated before I changed my mind to doing a 7A-GTE.
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