4age turbo HELP!!!!

[danhtruong]

Hello everybody;

I am looking for a T25 or T28 turbo for my 4age, and I found a guy that have a Garrett 14411-40P18 (300zx turbo) for good deal. Do anybody know what size of this turbo (T25 or T28). Is this turbo can be mount or use on the 4AGE? Which turbo size that you think is the best for 4age? This is my first turbo, so please help me out.

Thank you very much.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

This would be a T25. A good size for up to around 200WHP or so.
I do not like the 300ZX turbos because the outlet flange is different than any other T25. This means if you ever decide you want a different turbo you will have to redo your downpipe. If that's not a concern and if your goals are under 200WHP then it's a decent choice.
What turbo size is best depends completely on your power goals and a little bit on other things like how you want to get there.
For example a 400 HP build with high compression, big cams and 15 PSI will want a different turbo than a 400 hp build with low compression and stock cams at 30 PSI.

[danhtruong]

Thank you Yoshi. My goal is 300 whp, people told me that T3 turbo is too big for 4age. Please give me some advises. To reach my goal, should I go with T28 or T3 turbo?

[yoshimitsuspeed]

I have never been a fan of T3/4 turbos although I will admit it's mainly because I find their nomenclature and size terminology confusing and pretty weak so I never bothered getting familiar with them. I can't say anything bad about the turbos. I just find it much easier to discuss GT, MHI and other turbos because it's easy to know what their sizing means, compare turbos easier and find maps easily.
With that said anyone who tells you anything like x turbo is too big for x motor isn't worth listening too. It all depends on the application. If you are trying to make 200 hp then a GT3071 is way too big. If you are trying to make 800 hp then it's way too small.

For 300 WHP I would suggest a new Garrett. Probably something in the 2860, or 2870 or an EFR 6258 or so size range. I would need to know more about your exact build such as compression, cams, octane, redline etc to make a more accurate recommendation. This is all stuff that you can do as well but the more you understand it the more accurate your predictions can be.

If you insist on a cheap used turbo I would look for an evo 16G or something similar.

[danhtruong]

I am using Arias 8:1 piston with X beam connecting rod, 7 ribs block, stock cam, stock valve. What a cheap turbo that you can suggest me to buy to reach my goal?

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Why such low compression?
It will be very hard meeting your goal on stock cams.
Personaly for 300 HP I would go about 10:1 on pump gas with a 272 or so cam.

Like I already said you could look for Evo 16g turbos.

If you do run that low compression and stock cams you will need a ton of boost so something like an HX35 may actually be a decent choice. It will be laggier than some other options but they are designed for high boost.

[jinx]

T3/T4 turbo sizing is as simple as it gets. They're tried and proven old dogs
I think the question was about a plain old T3. Its not the same as a T3/T4(hybrid) at all
Lots of T3s have provided excellent performance on street 1.6 L. They can be upgraded to monster for low dollar if wanted
I posted a detailed popular article of a budget honda civic stock D16 build that dyno'd 342hp using a plain old $150 junkyard T3 off a ford 2.3sohc (svo/Tbird/Merkur). Tuned with nothing more than a rising rate fuel pressure regulator

[s24a]

Jinx...

You need to post the link.
The search feature of this forum does not work, and only gives an error message of "The specified search backend doesn’t exist" as a response.

Also gives the same message after you post a reply as well.
The administrators need to look into this and see if they can fix it for all of us.

Hank dozier

[jinx]

save the pix, dunno how long link is live
this is only one page of the article, but enough to get the jist
I believe the B16 made ~320hp with the smaller more responsive 0.48 turbine a/r. Dyno'd the 342hp with the 0.63 a/r
4AG stock cams will choke the motor ~300hp, and of course a plug and play megasquirt would be the way to go

I also have an excellent old turbo magazine article where they turbo'd a bone stock 1.5L Toyota Paseo
T28 + cartech/Bell rising regulator + upgrade fuel pump AND lines + 2.5 exhaust + MSD boost timing retard + FMIC. STOCK injectors!
The car ran a quick 12.58sec 1/4! Daily driver, still airconditioned
Same recipee would work as well on a stock 4AGE bluetop

[yoshimitsuspeed]

T3/T4 turbo sizing is as simple as it gets. They're tried and proven old dogs
I think the question was about a plain old T3. Its not the same as a T3/T4(hybrid) at all
Lots of T3s have provided excellent performance on street 1.6 L. They can be upgraded to monster for low dollar if wanted
I posted a detailed popular article of a budget honda civic stock D16 build that dyno'd 342hp using a plain old $150 junkyard T3 off a ford 2.3sohc (svo/Tbird/Merkur). Tuned with nothing more than a rising rate fuel pressure regulator

Maybe you can explain then.
The first thing that bothers me is you see them use trim to define size a lot. Trim means nothing as far as the size of the turbo so it's nearly useless information. It can be helpful information if you have a lot of other information to go with it.
You could have a 100mm exducer turbo and a 50mm exducer turbo that were both 50 trim.
Anywhere you look you can find 100 different compressor maps under the title T3.
https://www.google.com/search?q=t3+turb ... DnXogPM%3A


Ranging from at least as low as 20 lb/min to at least as high as high as 35 lb/min usually with nothing more differentiating them than trim and no explanation if there is any difference on turbine size or what that difference may be.

[SR85DET]

a link to turbo resource information should be readily available and explained somewhere. I think I'll spend my evening at work hunting this down.

[jinx]

yeah it can be overwhelming.... only if you want it to be
They could have a million compressor maps, and it'll make no differnce to me personally
Makes FAR more sense studying successful combinations. Never miss your mark. Waste no time. Take out the 'guess work'.

The older T04B wheels were the most popular in their day, until the T04E.
There was no such thing as 100 maps, for say the 46 trim, the benchmark 50 trim, etc. Countless folks who used them knew exactly what they were after and achieved the desired results. Nuff said.
Anyone who couldn't follow the sizing, and matching the staged turbine wheels and a/r ratios, should not be putting combos together anyway

I'll mention an example of a 2.3 turboford, that decided to log onto the hype and go GT3076r. That -expensive- turbo performance was a pos compared to an "upgraded" T3 Evergreen had built for him $400, using an old donkey T04B compressor and clipped turbine wheel in his stock housings. Daily driven heavy 4cyl pig ET'd 11sec 1/4s. The GT could not match the tq nowhere on the plot

[yoshimitsuspeed]

yeah it can be overwhelming.... only if you want it to be
They could have a million compressor maps, and it'll make no differnce to me personally
Makes FAR more sense studying successful combinations. Never miss your mark. Waste no time. Take out the 'guess work'.

The older T04B wheels were the most popular in their day, until the T04E.
There was no such thing as 100 maps, for say the 46 trim, the benchmark 50 trim, etc. Countless folks who used them knew exactly what they were after and achieved the desired results. Nuff said.
Anyone who couldn't follow the sizing, and matching the staged turbine wheels and a/r ratios, should not be putting combos together anyway

I'll mention an example of a 2.3 turboford, that decided to log onto the hype and go GT3076r. That -expensive- turbo performance was a pos compared to an "upgraded" T3 Evergreen had built for him $400, using an old donkey T04B compressor and clipped turbine wheel in his stock housings. Daily driven heavy 4cyl pig ET'd 11sec 1/4s. The GT could not match the tq nowhere on the plot

You mean it can be overwhelming if you want to know exactly WTF you are looking at? Successful combinations of what? Like I said trim doesn't mean anything as far as turbo size. Or are these pet names or model names for a particular compressor or turbine? Like is there only one 50 trim T3 even though a 50 trim turbo could really be any size? It makes zero sense. Is the 50 trim referring to the compressor or the turbine? What determines the size of the other side? Are there different combinations of compressor side and turbine side?
Just because one Garrett setup didn't work as well doesn't mean another won't. The difference is that you can look at all the information on the Garrett and use that information to decide what needs to change. Now I guess if you are going to pay people to build your turbos and don't care what is going into your car and want to just trust that they will get it right but personally I want to know exactly what is going into my car so if I think it could do better I know what I'm starting with.
Yes you can interpret things from successful builds but you have to know what their setup was. I love Mitsubishi turbos simply for their nomenclature.
TD05 tells you the turbine side information. 14B tells you the compressor side information. If I'm tunning a TD05 16G and hit it's limitations I can figure out where the restriction is. IE too much pre turbine back pressure I could put in a bigger housing or swap it over to TD06. Or I could compare that to a Garrett and find the one that would be the best upgrade.
The only thing I can find for sure about a T3 50 trim is that it is a 50 trim. I don't even know if that's compressor or turbine and either way it doesn't tell you anything useful.

[danhtruong]

Does anybody have idea about Twist Motion GT2871r V2 turbo? This is the turbo that I have been found for good price and good quality so far. I called them, they said turbos are assemble and inspect in USA. Unit comes with 1 year warranty.

[jinx]

Has there ever been a more popular turbo than the T3/T4(T04E) hybrid ? Show it to me. Figure it out
Yet you cant understand the simple sizing format?? T4 cold side mated to T3 hot ?
T3 turbine a/r ratios; extremely common 0.48 or 0.63, or the rare 0.36 or 0.82 if you were at either end of the spectrum
turbine wheel; either standard T3, stage II or stage III
T04E compressor wheels; 46 trim, the ever popular 50 trim, then the 54, 57 & 60.... and the old dog 60-1(T04B) for low boost
These have been in service for eons, and are NO more difficult to grasp than your 'simple mitsu nomenclature'. Perhaps for YOU
Only a dummy could not size a t3/t4 perfectly to their needs

12A, 13B, 14B, 14G, 15T, 16T, 16G, Big 16G, evoIII 16G, 17C, 17T, 18G, 19C, 19T, 20G, 25G, td04, 05, 05h, 06, 06h, 06SL2, 6cm, 7cm, 8cm, 10cm, etc.... than add the proven practice of 10,15 or 23 degree turbine wheel clips. Simpler eh ??

Yes you can interpret things from successful builds but you have to know what their setup was.

That is why I say(and recommend) 'study' them

Just because one Garrett setup didn't work as well doesn't mean another won't. The difference is that you can look at all the information on the Garrett and use that information to decide what needs to change. Now I guess if you are going to pay people to build your turbos and don't care what is going into your car and want to just trust that they will get it right but personally I want to know exactly what is going into my car so if I think it could do better I know what I'm starting with.

Its not like that turboforder didn't care. Evergreen has vast 2.3 experience and knows what makes em tick. The results say it all. Bury your head in maps for hours, and try to match that approach. Good luck
No different than Performance Techinques CT26 upgrades for the 7M bunch, or Precision was to the Buick GN camp, Forced was to the DSM etc.. No compressor maps have their wealth of experience and real world feedback

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Easy Jinx
I'm all for discussions but childish name calling is not acceptable on this board whether it's to me or anyone else.

Like I said trim means nothing as to turbo size. I never correlated them to being a pet or model name. As I already said, a 50 trim turbo could make 50 hp or 5000 hp. I have done considerable searching and never found any definitive information on T series nomenclature so chill.
After quite a lot of searching over the years this is the first time I am hearing of stage2 or 3 turbine wheels and have never seen anything that shows what their power ranges or sweet spot are. I still don't understand what T04E means or how that ties into this. I always figured T3/T4 was a hybrid but again have never seen any good information on exactly what that meant.
Perhaps it's just the nomenclature that always bothered me and demotivated me to study them further. I hear people talking about a 50 trim and assume like with a Garrett that could be any number of different turbos and could refer to either compressor or turbine. It would be like naming your tire the 55 because you only offered it in a 55 profile even though it really doesn't tell you anything about the tire and everyone else offers a ton of different tires in 55 profile. Then what happens if you decide you want to offer two tires in a 55 profile?

Whatever the case I'd still love to see somewhere that details information on these turbos.
And I would love to see builds where people list those details where you could actually 'study' and pull useful information from them.

[jinx]

No name calling anywhere in my posts.
Just sayin the t3/t4 is ez enough to follow.... as prescibing a mitsu
http://www.turbocharged.com/catalog/t3t4.html
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/TURBO/tmodels.html
Dunno if u call 'em Garret or turbonetics 'pet names', for the T04E compressor wheels mentioned, and the turbine wheels

You were a DSM guy? Remember what was heralded as the "pump gas king" ? Same old 50 trim
Remember the wildly popular Forced performance "Green" ? Same 50 trim comp wheel, in mitsu clothing
The miata that smashed their heads in, at the 'street 400hp shootout'. Same turbo
Even on more impressive street miata 1.8, a few CA18s, and the best SR20DE SE-R I've ever driven. All excellent match

The good, is u can start of with a basic T3 that'll take u up to ~300(the common 60 trim in turboford or Z31 30zx), then a $4-500 upgrade later, you could be chasing 500+. Same downpipe & manifold, and sometimes same housings depending on what you're after.
This was a way of life for many oem turbo cars
Sure you'll hear the whinners yappin about this old (excellent perfdoming mind you) technology.... but if you get on that treadmill, best throw away our dinosaur 4AG while we at it