4AGE automatic

tlea
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4AGE automatic

Postby tlea » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:43 am

Hi. I am looking to find an RWD automatic transmission that can be coupled to a 4AGE and is not controlled by ECU
Thanks in advance

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jondee86
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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jondee86 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:36 am

A42DL as found in the SR5/AE85 with the 4AC engine. This will bolt right up to
the 4AGE and the only problem you will have is locating a suitable 8-bolt flexplate.
The 4AC has a 6-bolt crank and the 4AGE has an 8-bolt, but I am lead to believe
that the flexplate from some of the FWD 4AGE Corollas with auto trans will fit.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jinx » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:08 am

^that's exactly my plan. I have all those parts but not yet checked the fx16 auto flexplate spacing and rwd torque converter bolt-up.

I gave an older 3 speed auto (A40?, from a 4AC) to a buddy, who fried his SR5 A42 4spd auto.... behind his 4agte(T3 @ 10psi)
Wierd that I never asked him flexplate details, but obviouly it works
He would brake stand until a little boost barely got the rear tires spinning, then sidestep the brake pedal while laying into the throttle
Car took off like a scalded cat, fishtailing while pressing you in the seat. Hella fun ride!
Gotta 'bump up' the stock tranny if u expect it to last, with that sorta abuse tho

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jondee86
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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jondee86 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:34 am

Interesting :) Running an auto has been in the back of my mind for a long time.
Looked at fitting a later model auto from an Altezza but just too much work to get
it installed in an AE86. Control would be a problem as well, as it would need an
aftermarket trans controller and that is another heap of work.

There are some other possibles but using the A42DL is the obvious choice if it can
be toughened up a bit to handle 200-250hp reliably. Apparently it can be done but
I haven't been able to find anyone local who knows how to build a tough A42DL.

If you decide to go that route I would be interested in hearing how it performs.

Cheers... jondee86
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tlea
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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby tlea » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:37 am

Thanks for the replies. Challenge for me is finding one. Seems most stuff over 25 years old here in the states is scrapped. So this would be mid 80’s Corolla not AE86?

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:26 am

tlea wrote:Thanks for the replies. Challenge for me is finding one. Seems most stuff over 25 years old here in the states is scrapped. So this would be mid 80’s Corolla not AE86?


AR86 SR5 autos are moderately plentiful... earlier cars(1983 AE71) have the A40, not the A42

As to appropriate flexplate - look for MR2, or AE82(FX16) with auto
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby tlea » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:43 am

I am sorry for my ignorance. I am not very familiar with older Toyota’s I am trying to convert an old Morris minor to 4AGE auto for my wife. Do I want AE85 or 86 trans?
Not sure which one this is

https://m.ebay.com/itm/84-85-86-87-Toyo ... .H0.X.TRS5

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jondee86 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:47 pm

That's the one. Trans is used behind the 4AC but will bolt up to a 4AGE as they are
both A-Series engines. You just need to figure out the flexplate by looking at the cars
mentioned above.

Morris Minor !!! Wouldn't have thought there would be many of those in the States :)

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:03 pm

tlea wrote:I am sorry for my ignorance. I am not very familiar with older Toyota’s I am trying to convert an old Morris minor to 4AGE auto for my wife. Do I want AE85 or 86 trans?
Not sure which one this is

https://m.ebay.com/itm/84-85-86-87-Toyo ... .H0.X.TRS5



As the Morris Minor had very little hp, a stock, or mostly stock 4AGE should work well with an auto and the Morris. You could build a bit more compression into the engine (keep stock cams) to supply a bit more bottom end "grunt". As to the piston, something along the lines of the 1990 4AGE "smallport" pistons, they are 10.3:1 should do the trick
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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:37 pm

For the flexplate and such, there's also the 1989-1992 Geo Prizm GSi trim level, all which had a 4A-GE, and some had an automatic tranny.
'88 Corolla All-Trac

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby tlea » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:37 am

Perfect. I will pickup and get rebuilding. We do a lot of automatics so we should be able to beef it up well

I haven’t picked up motor yet and there are many out there. Is blacktop preferred over silvertop? I like performance but being wife’s car reliability is primary concern.

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:54 am

tlea wrote:Perfect. I will pickup and get rebuilding. We do a lot of automatics so we should be able to beef it up well

I haven’t picked up motor yet and there are many out there. Is blacktop preferred over silvertop? I like performance but being wife’s car reliability is primary concern.



Just some context.....

Morris Minor Engine maximum power was about 65hp.

Stock: Blacktop engine is about 165hp, a Silvertop is about 155hp, a smallport 16V is about 130hp, and a largeport is about 112hp. Differences are not as vast as they appear. Reason - variables like compression and cam are considerably different. If you build equal versions (same compression , similar cams) the differences aren't as significant.


As to which you want to run.... Blacktop and Silvertop were never legally imported, but plenty around - Best to use OEM management for most reliability. Aftermarket management is available for all versions. 16V versions may be easier to find.
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jinx » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:49 am

Perfect. I will pickup and get rebuilding. We do a lot of automatics so we should be able to beef it up well

let us know how u frehen up the A42, and minor upgrades. With a mormally aspirated motor it should outlive the car
haven’t picked up motor yet and there are many out there. Is blacktop preferred over silvertop? I like performance but being wife’s car reliability is primary concern.

With the lighter weight Minor, any 4AGE should make enough torque for ok street performance
For spirited street, u can shift manually holding the gear longer to enjoy the higher revs pull of a 20V

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jinx » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:27 pm

Running an auto has been in the back of my mind for a long time.
Looked at fitting a later model auto from an Altezza but just too much work to get
it installed in an AE86. Control would be a problem as well, as it would need an
aftermarket trans controller and that is another heap of work.


GS300/Aristo 4spd tranny actually physically smaller than my A42! Closer in size to A40
One would think such a big boat would have a considerably larger unit

I have a gearhead friend who is into JZs.
I've seen him cut the 1st 3 inches or so, of bellhousing from toyota auto trany and nissan 5spd
In order to adapt(weld bellhsg) the rb25/z32 nissan 5spd. Done right in his back yard
Work so well he's adapted five or more others upon request (folks purchased JZ motor sets with auto box)
Nissan 5spd shifts much smoother, is stronger, and no crappy common thrust failure like the overpriced R154 toyota 5spd

As a byproduct, he wound up with some JZ auto trannys laying around, decided to "try" one
Researched increasing the line pressure and shift solenoid power up
Got the car shifting with two? toggle switches(on the console).... just a flick of the wrist
Don't remember what he did for converter lockup
Trans withstood brakestand lauches & lotsa rips down the dragstrip
Daily driven full weight. 1JZ, precision 6262, stock ecu + SAFC, injectors. Car was quick
Impressive for the minimal 'tinkering'.... so I grabbed a tranny due to its compact size
My thinking is: very few turbo 4cyl would excede torque that JZ sent thru it, plus in a much lighter hull
Just kickin this out as an option..... crude & inexpensive, but it 'worked' :lol:

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jondee86 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:56 am

Yusss... I don't have a racecar so the idea I had in mind was to have an auto with
an aftermarket controller so that I could either let the controller change gears in
full auto mode or switch to a "tiptronic" mode with programmable shift points.

Tracked down a supplier and even fould a guy here in NZ who used the controller
when he fitted a UZ with auto into a BMW 320. He was an electronics guy and said
he got it working pretty good but it was a prick of a job and not to be recommended.

So I canned that and looked at using an A340E as I am told that the early ones were
old school manual controls rather than ECU controlled. From memory I think I found
that you can bolt them to a W-Series bell and W-Series to 4A bells are available. All
that would be needed would be a custom spider to adapt the converter to a 4AGE
flex plate, then manualise the trans.

But that was not what I was really looking for, so now I'll probably go the J160 route
when my T-50 craps out. No sense in making life more difficult than it needs to be :)

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jinx » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:16 am

No sense in making life more difficult than it needs to be

Huh? your supercharge effort is precisely that... as well as all 4agte builds. Its what we do :) hehe

No "racecar" mentioned anywhere in the thread
JZ 100% daily driven, full weight airconditioned ~3200 pounds
Car drove normal, except with quick firm upshifts at the movement of figertips.... just no steering wheel paddles
Any 5spd is alot more work, and -that- should be considered more 'racecar' by comparison

Dragstrip practice mentioned to convey its functionality, durability, minor mods, in a compact package

Only silly priced controllers existed years ago when he did this. I think he mentioned reasonable priced alternatives nowadays

J160 still needs adapting, then gotta sort out your gearing.
I personally see no point in 6 speeds, unless torque is weak vs vehicle weight, and confined to a peaky narrow band
Boosted 4cyl full weight 100% street cars go 12,11,10,9s in the 1/4, trapping tripple digit mph using only 3 gears - stick or auto
Easily knocking hi 30s mpg highway economy

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jondee86 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:49 pm

Yeah, six gears would be too many for me. It's more about being able to buy
the bits needed for the conversion and having the gear lever sit in the stock
location. I would be happy with four gears, and I have a T-40 and a 3.9 CW&P
sitting in the garage. When the T-50 dies I am going to fit those as a test and
see if it does what I want... should be like a T-50 without 5th gear :)

Otherwise I think a W55 (or a W40 if I can find one) would be an easy fix if
I can get the right shifter.

Cheers... jondee86
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oldeskewltoy
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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby oldeskewltoy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:19 am

speak as you may.... I have plenty of torque, and love my J160... :mrgreen:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jinx » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:13 am

"plenty of torque" is relative
tq from a boosted motor, on another level than its normally aspirated counterpart... hence different gearing requirements
the extra gear won't do anything for acceleration, in the examples listed

For your build, the J160 is a perfect application imo.... exactly as toyota did for the Altezza

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:54 am

jinx wrote:"plenty of torque" is relative
tq from a boosted motor, on another level than its normally aspirated counterpart... hence different gearing requirements
the extra gear won't do anything for acceleration, in the examples listed

For your build, the J160 is a perfect application imo.... exactly as toyota did for the Altezza


having come from the muscle/pony car era, I do understand "plenty of torque" better then many... 8-)
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby tlea » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:51 pm

I got my A42DL. There are electrical harnesses going into it, one on drivers side other on passenger side where shift lever is. Any idea what they are? I suspect one by shifter is neutral safety/ reverse light?

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:41 am

tlea wrote:I got my A42DL. There are electrical harnesses going into it, one on drivers side other on passenger side where shift lever is. Any idea what they are? I suspect one by shifter is neutral safety/ reverse light?

I believe....neutral start switch, and overdrive

while not cheap... I recommend a Toyota factory service manual - http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/Search.aspx?c=88508 - just checked and all they have is the fwd info... :( You might find it elsewhere..... seen a few advertised here on C4AG, and occasionally on Craigslist

it will have a complete breakdown of servicing the automatic transmission (107 pages worth!)

If you decide on a 16V 4AGE "largeport" engine, the FSM will have all the specs, and rebuilding information as well.
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jinx » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:24 am

Image
oem overdrive wiring. Save pic to your computer, n u can enlarge it

R-L (red wire/blue stripe) supplies +12V to OD indicator light and relay > solenoid

R-W ending at right side of pic, is emmision
L-R ending at right side of pic, is from cruise module
these controls and the water thermo sensor(shown) only interrups under various conditions

need a simple bracket added onto the 4AGE throttle crank for the tranny cable, and a bracket(on manifold) to hold/adjust the cable.
basically, just mimmick the carb arrangement

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby tlea » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:05 pm

That's helpful. Still confused as its not connecting to oem harness. What is it that signals the converter to lock up?
Thanks

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jinx » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:20 am

as per diagram, relay simply sending +12V to solenoid.... which engages final OD gear or not
controllong that is useful for scooting around town

torque converter lockup then related to throtle opening percentage

that cable adjustment is important, as it really affects tranny operation..... when it shifts, how it shifts

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby tlea » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:39 am

I think I understand that but I’m still confused as to what turns it on and off. There is a switch that supplies power through an indicator light which tells if the overdrive is off or on. Then it goes to relay which is also must have a go no go switch controlled by water temperature probably related to overheating not allowing the overdrive come on.
I guess what I don’t understand is what is the initial off on switch? Is it just a manual switch on the dash so the driver can decide whether the overdrive comes on or not?
The cable, I assume that that is a kickdown cable so that when your accelerator goes at a certain position or speed it automatically kicks the transmission down into the lower or passing gear?
Thank you so much for the help with this it’s making it come to light

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Re: 4AGE automatic

Postby jinx » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:32 pm

AE factory on/off switch located at the shifter base. Many cars have it right on the shifter handle
toyota probably didn't wanna spend for a shifter redesign, since rwd rolla days were numbered

thermo switch wont allow OD til motor warmed up. Revs help... and don't want to 'lug'(load & low rpm) a motor with cold oil

...and yes to all your questions. U got the jist of it

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