4agze problems

[greyae92]

I wish I had the experience of driving cars over in Japan, mostly so I could get a feel for the different engines and have easy access to all the quality jdm parts! I'm going to get an NST pulley kit and eventually do a front mount intercooler, for now my ARC top mount will have to suffice. I noticed you rebuilt your E58, mine is feeling worn out on some of the syncros, where did you get the parts for it if you did rebuild it?

[greyae92]

I recently acquired a w2a intercooler and all components etc from an 88 celica gt4 . Do you think it's worth the conversion or would a front mount just be a better way to go

[Crownvicman289]

I don't know, the MR2 guys seem to love the Celica A2W intercoolers. I had a PWR A2W intercooler and it heatsoaked something fierce, FMIC was far more effective and consistent. For a quick blast, my W2A was more effective as it lost less boost, but produced less top end than the FMIC. I was able to get around the 5500 RPM power drop with the FMIC prior to going standalone.

[greyae92]

Well if all else fails I guess I can sell the w2a setup on the mr2 forums then, thankfully I pulled the whole thing and it's unmolested!

[Blof-fan]

Well, as a Corolla club we had serveral 4A-GZE's on a dyno with different set-ups.
One guy had a bone-stock 4A-GZE with the OEM top mount intercooler and hoodscoop, a other guy had a pretty much stock 4A-GZE with a (decent setup) front mounted intercooler and that guy was pretty bummed because the stock 4A-GZE car made more power than his front intercooled 4A-GZE. He didn't expect that...
Since the intercooler was the only main difference and they wanted to know if that was the problem, they swapped the top mounted intercooler over to the other car there on the spot and had another go with the same car on the dyno that day and guess what...It made a way better pull than with the front mounted intercooler...

I have a 4A-GZE myself, although not running yet. And I am planning to use a W2A intercooler as well. Mainly due to the fact that I personally think that a front mounted intercooler is just to much volume for the supercharger to displace. A roots type supercharger is a positive displacement charger (unlike a turbo for instance, which is a centrifugal compressor and builds up pressure with air velocity) which has to displace a certain amount of air and builds up pressure by forcing those large amounts of air into the space behind the compressor.
If you use a front mount intercooler, the piping needed to get to the front (which is murder to route on the 4A-GZE using the standard in- and outlets) of the car and the (often larger) intercooler itself will greatly increase the volume the compressor has to fill.
It will still build up pressure, the SC12 still displaces 1200cc of air with every rotation, but the pressure might be slightly less because it takes more time to 'fill' the volume after the compressor while the engine is still using up large amounts of air as well. And since it takes more time to fill the volume, you will notice that in throttle responce which is one of the main attractions of the supercharger.

It is my believe that a well setup W2A intercooler system is ideal for the 4A-GZE. You can keep the volume of piping and the intercooler itself relatively small and do pretty much whatever you want with the water system that gives you your cooling capabilities. Instant throttle responce and better cooling than the topmounted intercooler.

Granted, is does have some downsides. Heatsoak can occur if the system isn't set up propperly, it is far more complex than a air-to-air intercooled system and it certainly adds more weight...
But it makes for an interesting challenge as well

[greyae92]

That's the biggest thing about going FMIC that I don't like, far too much lag time and relocating a bunch of stuff. the w2a makes for an interesting challenge but that project isn't even close to planning yet. I just want to be able to drive my car without blowing it up from lack of oil pressure lol

[greyae92]

Well good news, oil pressure has been sorted out, thanks to some helpful friends! Bypass valve wasn't working right, replaced it, pressure is at 60psi now.

[Blof-fan]

Nice!

[Crownvicman289]

As far as the FMIC making less power, it's true to a certain degree. Get that top mount hot and it'll hand the victory to the FMIC every time. Top mount is good for 1 quick pull and that's it. I was never satisfied with so little time in the throttle and regularly heat soaked my W2A and top mount and intercoolerless setups. FMIC was by far the most durable. I lost a little midrange and gained a ton of top end on stock ECU.

Grey I didn't rebuild the E58, I just reassembled it. If it's anything like a C56 vs C52, then the parts must come from the motherland. If I'm smart, I'll grab a couple C56 syncros this fall when I visit.

[greyae92]

Let me know when you're going to visit, I may have a list of small parts I need if you have time and space to pick them up. Although I need to check e51 trannies might be the same internally as the e58. I drove my car down to Broomfield for the CUSCC car show. Have to say the 4agze is a lot more fun drive then a 4age. I can't wait till I can hit a rally day!

[Crownvicman289]

They have different ratios, so likely different syncros. I know on the C52 it used the same syncros for 1-2 and 3-4, but on the C56 each gear got its own syncro. Makes me wonder if they went double cone on the first few gears? It'll be later this summer, probably Aug-Sep timeframe.

[greyae92]

I'll see what I can find out. I really only need to replace the syncro on my 1-2 gears, normal ware and tear on a tranny that was shifted by impatient people but it at least still works

[asjoseph]

`

[4agshoob]

Well good news, oil pressure has been sorted out, thanks to some helpful friends! Bypass valve wasn't working right, replaced it, pressure is at 60psi now.

im glad to hear that, because i was sort of getting bummed out, reading this. i was gonna say, also, i shimmed that oil pump, pull the hex bolt out of the side, and remove those few washers at the surface giving the spring a bit more pressure, it may have been too much.

did you get around to getting stock intake plumbing?

also on the gze, as ive found over the years, the belt slips can be unoticed sound wise, but if you dont really make sure theyre sinched down, they will slip.

as for the milky stuff, i get it in the winter too. also if this was upon first start up, it very well might have been some of the cleaning agents used to clean the engine before being rebuilt. when i said, zero miles, seriously, zero miles i just spun it over a few times.

[4agshoob]

... main bearings. Rebuild time is near.

Samuel, '88 Supercharged

lol, no, i put ACL race bearings in this engine, matched to the block stampings, and it might have what....1000 miles or so on it Dan?

as for the trans, i wish i could say more on this. its not the trans i ran with that engine before being rebuilt, its the one i pulled out of the half cut, that was attached to the 4agze in my sig. i ended up selling my original trans that was mated to this engine you have now to my aw11 buddy.

how did everything look when you pulled everything apart to check the HG?

[4agshoob]

Well, as a Corolla club we had serveral 4A-GZE's on a dyno with different set-ups.
One guy had a bone-stock 4A-GZE with the OEM top mount intercooler and hoodscoop, a other guy had a pretty much stock 4A-GZE with a (decent setup) front mounted intercooler and that guy was pretty bummed because the stock 4A-GZE car made more power than his front intercooled 4A-GZE. He didn't expect that...
Since the intercooler was the only main difference and they wanted to know if that was the problem, they swapped the top mounted intercooler over to the other car there on the spot and had another go with the same car on the dyno that day and guess what...It made a way better pull than with the front mounted intercooler...

I have a 4A-GZE myself, although not running yet. And I am planning to use a W2A intercooler as well. Mainly due to the fact that I personally think that a front mounted intercooler is just to much volume for the supercharger to displace. A roots type supercharger is a positive displacement charger (unlike a turbo for instance, which is a centrifugal compressor and builds up pressure with air velocity) which has to displace a certain amount of air and builds up pressure by forcing those large amounts of air into the space behind the compressor.
If you use a front mount intercooler, the piping needed to get to the front (which is murder to route on the 4A-GZE using the standard in- and outlets) of the car and the (often larger) intercooler itself will greatly increase the volume the compressor has to fill.
It will still build up pressure, the SC12 still displaces 1200cc of air with every rotation, but the pressure might be slightly less because it takes more time to 'fill' the volume after the compressor while the engine is still using up large amounts of air as well. And since it takes more time to fill the volume, you will notice that in throttle responce which is one of the main attractions of the supercharger.

It is my believe that a well setup W2A intercooler system is ideal for the 4A-GZE. You can keep the volume of piping and the intercooler itself relatively small and do pretty much whatever you want with the water system that gives you your cooling capabilities. Instant throttle responce and better cooling than the topmounted intercooler.

Granted, is does have some downsides. Heatsoak can occur if the system isn't set up propperly, it is far more complex than a air-to-air intercooled system and it certainly adds more weight...
But it makes for an interesting challenge as well

agree, but theres a few keys here to actually make the FMIC functional, and make power. in my cases dyno proven power.

1. piping diameter. like you said the sc12 is a roots style blower, so velocity is more on its side than cfm's. in turn, running 2" intercooler piping, vs. the standard 2.5" will help to retain a good amount of velocity.

2. intercooler sizing. again velocity vs. cfm, plays a huge role in this area. intercooler design as well. running a larger than oem intercooler with a surface area of not over 20% larger than oem, will net you a benefit. this intercooler needs to be a strait thru design, typically longer than taller, if the end caps are at each opposing end. static pressure can be retained by limiting the bends that the velocity has to endure.

3. letting the s/c breath. now, if you run the 2" piping to the FMIC, then your static pressure is pretty well in check , and your not losing velocity by trying to fill an overly huge 2.5" pipe or overly huge intercooler. but none the less your still asking the s/c for more air, than what toyota had it designed to handle, hence the 50mm throttle body, and awful dogleg intake manifold, or that super restrictive j pipe leading strait to the s/c inlet. by increasing the throttle body size, and running a different intake(smallport with TB butterfly removed), you eliminate 2 restrictions. 1 being the small opening in which the s/c is trying to breath, the throttle body, and you are now allowing a more direct velocity enter the combustion chamber via the smallport intake.

4. pulley.. so now your letting your s/c breath, its not choking thru 50mm sucking, or pushing thru crazy 180 degree and s-bends like the oem setup. why not take advantage of this new, free-er flowing design, and also aid in gaining back some of your throttle responce, all while adding a few more lbs. of positive pressure?



i speak on this from experience. the engine dan has now, before i rebuilt it and sold it with a system very similar to what im describing above, that engine seen 182whp and 179lbft. on a mustang dyno (aka heart breaker) with the setup that was on the engine when he recieved it. that being a 63mm 7mgte throttle body, 2.5" 30 degree intake pipe to s/c inlet, 2" piping, 24"x6"x3" FMIC, 2" return piping, smallport intake w/ TB butterfly removed, beginner port work, and bigport cams to a 4-2-1 header and 2.25" exhaust running a blitz 14 psi crank pulley (kouki sc12 "starface") and this was when the engine had 120k miles on it.

another example. the kouki ae92 4agze in my sig. with it, i had a 55mm 4age throttle body, ported and polished j-pipe, the same 14 psi blitz pulley, 2" piping, custom s/c outlet from crownvicman, s/c belt wrapp mod w/ the 4ag timing gear, bigport intake cam, smallport exhaust cam, adj. cam gears, (-2 intake +7 exhaust) head shaved .040,, gasket matched, .7mm head gasket, 4-2-1 header, and 2" exhaust. made 186whp and 192lbft at the rear wheels. (4:778 r&p, and 13's) in a 4th gear pull.

later i added underdrive pulleys, ditched the 4age 55mm throtle body in favor of a 7mgte throttle body, and a 2.5" 90 degree pipe, and 256 cams (tdc intake +6 exhaust), and just got shy of 200whp and 210lbft.

ive always wanted to try water to air setup, and see if it would further increase power, using this flow setup. unfortunatly, im bored with 4a's and finding decent gze's for a good price, complete in good shape, is getting really hard.

[greyae92]

Shoob, when I pulled the HG everything looked great, I did get a stock intake system on it, I mostly just wanted it for the break-in period and to get the engine up and running before throwing the intake mod that you had on it, eventually I will go back to it but for now stock will work. If you get a chance take a look at my new problem viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5336

[4agshoob]

Shoob, when I pulled the HG everything looked great, I did get a stock intake system on it, I mostly just wanted it for the break-in period and to get the engine up and running before throwing the intake mod that you had on it, eventually I will go back to it but for now stock will work. If you get a chance take a look at my new problem viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5336

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