Info on swapping a 20v into an '87 FX16 GT-S?

Zokhara
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Info on swapping a 20v into an '87 FX16 GT-S?

Postby Zokhara » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:36 pm

Hey, so just had a rod start knocking in my 1987 Toyota Corolla FX-16 GT-S, and I am thinking about doing an engine/trans swap instead of a rebuild, since JDM import engines with under 70k miles are only around $1,500.
What I'm wondering is, what in this swap would be not straightforward; e.g. extra parts, moving motor mounts, drive-line length, etc. All of the import engines i've seen for sale have a cut wiring harness and no ECU included. Will the FX16's ECU work if I cut and splice? And if so, are there any guides for this?

If it matters - I am open to swapping either the Silvertop or Blacktop 4AGE, and less so the 4AGZE.
In the listings I've seen, the silvertop's come with a 5-speed mt, and the blacktop's with a 6-speed mt. I think I would prefer the 6-speed, but I am all ears if anyone would recommend the silvertop over the blacktop for any reason (I would like to boost this car in the future, finances permitting).
Are the transmissions all the same housing? I would rather not have to shorten/lengthen a drive line if I can avoid it.

If you link me to the search function, you are wasting your time. I am making this thread because there is limited info on the FX16's for swaps, and I have no idea if I can use the same info on swaps as other FWD corolla's or not, or the AE86's aside from the transmission side of things. However, if you link me to a thread to read, that would be greatly appreciated. I don't need my info handed to me, I'm just new to my FX16 and i'm not sure what info I can use from other Corolla models.

Other things I have been wondering if you happen to know, and are reading this forum anyways:
1) I was told when I purchased this car that there are kits to turn my 5-speed trans into a 6-speed. Is this true? Links?
2) If someone wanted to go turbo, and build a block for it, what generation of block is the strongest / least prone to spinning mains?
1987 Toyota Corolla FX-16 GT-S
Stock Bigport 16v, headers, HKS exhaust, K&N intake, Ground Control adjustable coil-overs. Interior 9/10, exterior 7/10.
Enginge has knock currently and is down. Looking into swapping in an imported 20v/6spd.

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taroroot
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Re: Info on swapping a 20v into an '87 FX16 GT-S?

Postby taroroot » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:46 pm

Putting a 20v into FX16 is pretty much the same as an AE92, I just finished reinstalling completely rebuilt 20v into mine. Transaxles interchange so you could use existing transaxle, except for one complication the starter. The 20V starter is on the intake side, which really is better, because of clearance with header. However the original FX16 bellhousing doesn't have the intake side mounts. You need to source a later bellhousing that has the alternate starter mounting positions, and the sheet metal plate that goes between bellhousing and block.
You need the matching 20v ECU, your original ECU will not work. A BT ECU is supposed to be able to run a ST, but I hear it ends up running a little off since intake sizes and flow are different. You will need to rewire harness. Theres a couple guys making harnesses.

Use all your original pulleys and accessories though, or all 20V for ease of lining up the belt. A couple brackets need to be ground to clear the flange of the timing belt cover to fit 16v accessories, I think it was the power steering one. And you'll need to get a little creative with the alternator tensioning.
You'll need to source different radiator hoses, I know I took pics of the ones that I finally found that were almost perfect. Not sure if I put it up on web yet. I dispensed with heater since we live in tropics, can't help you with the hose for that.
Fuel hose. Previous owner that this came out of had hacked the original fuel hose, but its not ideal. Found aftermarket kit marked for Honda (Russel I think) that worked well, except I needed a little longer hose section, Russel sells just the hose too. Trimmed one of the intake studs down to give more clearance for the L bend fuel fitting, I'm much happier with this setup.
If you need exhaust downpipe, you can use the 20V to MR2 downpipe the SVE makes.
I think that covers most everything. The wiring is the biggest deal, I think.
You can browse my blog at studionewmedia.com/blog and filter on car category and it should have most of the stuff on my FX16

taroroot
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Re: Info on swapping a 20v into an '87 FX16 GT-S?

Postby taroroot » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:54 pm

Oh, the ST is supposedly thought to be a little stronger than BT. I think BT internals were lightened. If your planning turbo, I'd think you want to use the ZE block though. The ST is proving to be quite the screamer after its rebuild. Been driving to break it in this week and did a couple full blast standing start freeway merges. When it hit the powerband somewhere past 4K the revs went nuts, I thought the clutch was slipping, no the tires were burning out, this is with LSD.

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AE25
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Re: Info on swapping a 20v into an '87 FX16 GT-S?

Postby AE25 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:58 am

I'd suggest start with BT 20v if you wish to keep N/A power. if going turbo, both types have pros and cons. ST bottom end only requires gze pistons or forgies to handle reasonable boost. BT should should also swap in redtop or ST rods as they're stronger.

have accomplished this many moons ago. ae101 ST 20v into ae82 fxgt. both were RHD jdm models.

Image

biggest part of straight swap is the wiring. after splicing both looms together (time consuming).. The ae101 trueno engine wiring is also not long enough to take the same passage through the firewall as the ae82 wiring. so had to make an extension adaptor for the ecu plugs. Don't try use an ST auto loom on a manual ecu like i went through. the auto/manual ecu plugs are much different and the re-pin process is a nightmare.
As mentioned, keeping the original A/C compressor requires a bit of a trim on the mount bracket.
c56 5-speed from ae111 with lsd would be the pick of the bunch. less prone to stripping gears when abused compared to c160 6-speed. caution on the AE92 gearboxs which can have a different end mount bolt pattern compared to ae82 or ae101/111 box.
ae82 driveshafts are unequal length. apparently using the equal length shafts from later corollas (I used ae101 from memory) is less likely to torque steer.
The 20v intake pipe wont fit the ae82 cold air box.
exhaust manifold needs adapting to original exhaust. I upgraded to 2.1/4" but ended using two 18" long 2.1/4" resonators to muffle the twincam 'twang'.
get creative with the brake booster vacuum tubing.
My original radiator had a hole so I used the ae101 trueno item. Top mounts didn't quite line up but it sits in there ok using one lol. Top radiator hose is a customised item.

I have a project thread on toyspeed (and ae82.net which went down?). mostly explains the ae101 suspension/brake upgrades i've done on the ae82. May need to be registered on forum to seee.
http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic ... 70b11e6517

http://www.toycrazy.net/mark/ae82fxgt.html
-Mark
'71 ke26 5k, '75 ke25 4age, '78 kp60 bug, '83 ke70 3tgte, '85 ke74, '86 ae82 20v, '90 st185 gt4, '90 sw20

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taroroot
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Re: Info on swapping a 20v into an '87 FX16 GT-S?

Postby taroroot » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:47 pm

I'm using C52 5 speed transmission that comes in the FX16, rebuilt with MR-2 gears and new bearings. Bell housing scrounged from later junkyard corolla that has the dual starter humps. The MR-2 gears are all the same. KAAZ 1.5 LSD. For driveshafts I ended up getting DriveShaft Shop to make me custom shafts. Original spec aftermarket shafts could not hack it, I broke them all. Don't believe it when the aftermarket shafts you buy say meets or exceeds OEM specs (even EMPIs snapped) and if you talk to DriveShaft Shop they'll tell you as much. Get actual OEM, they are far superior, but hard to find, and expensive. We ended up going all custom fabricated by DSS except for the outer joint.
Oh yeah, you can use the starter speced for the supercharged MR-2. Unfortunately I think the plate between the block and bellhousing that helps locate the starter that I modded isn't aligned quite right so my starter makes horrendous screeching, but it does start the engine.
I can vouch for the customer service with DriveShaft Shop and KAAZ, they both helped me out.

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Rogue-AE95
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Re: Info on swapping a 20v into an '87 FX16 GT-S?

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:02 pm

When you get custom axles made, can they basically create an entire axle from scratch (and I presume, using high quality parts)?
'88 Corolla All-Trac

taroroot
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Re: Info on swapping a 20v into an '87 FX16 GT-S?

Postby taroroot » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:42 pm

Yes. They have varying levels of custom shafts. You can have just the center shaft made from high strength steel but retain stock joints and ends, or go full custom from end to end. I can't remember exactly why, I think they didn't have a source for the end joint at the wheel end so we used some I got at junkyard. Because it was custom at the transaxle end, we ended up not using the OEM FX16 flange and spline that bolts to separate joint and did a single unit spline and joint more commonly seen on cars. The flange is kind of nice in that you can remove stock FX16 shafts from vehicle without emptying transaxle oil, and if you are dexteritous enough can even get the shaft out without undoing the balljoints.

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