OST-044: What the "F"?

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oldeskewltoy
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OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:35 pm

It has been a while since I did an "F" head, Grunt's lump was built Dec 2010 to June 2011 - F head port, and rebuild

This "F" head is a later type, with the raised intake ports.

Time to get it cleaned and pressure checked

Image

Image


current short radius.....

Image



more to come...... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

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Rogue-AE95
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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:25 am

I was hoping to see you attack one of the 2nd gen 4A-FE heads someday. I have one sitting atop the 7A-FE I bought to make a 7A-G(T)E, and wondered if it would be better or worse than the 1st gen head for building up a turbo'd economy engine.

Those 2nd gen intake ports are so steep.
'88 Corolla All-Trac

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:12 am

Rogue-AE95 wrote:I was hoping to see you attack one of the 2nd gen 4A-FE heads someday. I have one sitting atop the 7A-FE I bought to make a 7A-G(T)E, and wondered if it would be better or worse than the 1st gen head for building up a turbo'd economy engine.

Those 2nd gen intake ports are so steep.



haven't even touched it yet.... and YES it would make for a much better head for ANY "F" application - turbo, n/a, or S/C
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:17 pm

Rogue-AE95 wrote:
Those 2nd gen intake ports are so steep.


That they are.....

Image


The intake valves are also bigger, 1st gen 30mm, 2nd gen 31mm ;)



That is the extent of the good news... the bad news.... the front oil drain still interferes with the exhaust flow on #1 exhaust port :(

Image


Image






more to come....... :mrgreen:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:36 pm

Figures about the oil passage. Why make something perfect, right? ;)

I guess the intake couldn't be any better of an angle, going more like ( instead of L.
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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:10 pm

Do you see what I see..... ???

Image


more to come..... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:53 am

Cleaned up casting, like you do with the G heads? Or was it that nice from the foundry?
'88 Corolla All-Trac

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby oldeskewltoy » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:28 pm

Rogue-AE95 wrote:Cleaned up casting, like you do with the G heads? Or was it that nice from the foundry?

I've deburred, and cleaned the casting some... but there is another something that I see..........



While you are still trying to see what I see.... :?:



7 years ago when I built "Grunt's Lump, OST-011", I didn't have the easiest(best?) tool for setting, AND measuring the valves.......

Image



Here is the design, and building process for the tool I'll be using this time.....

Image


quite a bit more accurate and reliable!




more to come....... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:29 am

Image
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:53 am

oldeskewltoy wrote:What do I see........????


Image



wider valve spacing on the exhaust valves..... although not clear enough to measure in the photo, if you look at the cam journals, the intake journal is about 2mm narrower then the corresponding exhaust cam journal

Image



more to come.... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby Gino1X1 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:40 am

I, like..... THOUGHT I saw that on my nephew's 4Efte's head..... How about that.

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:15 pm

Interesting. Is it advantageous to have the ex valves like that?

What (or who) is this head for, if I may ask? I was thinking that it's a lot of work for an "economy" head, but a good experiment regardless. Like the early 4A-FE head you worked on for your CAT sedan. (I still hope you decide to put a smallish turbo on that, as it's perfectly built & prepped for one.)
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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:39 am

Rogue-AE95 wrote:Interesting. Is it advantageous to have the ex valves like that?

What (or who) is this head for, if I may ask? I was thinking that it's a lot of work for an "economy" head, but a good experiment regardless. Like the early 4A-FE head you worked on for your CAT sedan. (I still hope you decide to put a smallish turbo on that, as it's perfectly built & prepped for one.)


The exhaust tends to work better with the valves closer to the cylinder wall, so wider spacing can improve flow.

As to it being an economy head... ;)


So it has been a while.... and after some digging..

Image


there is improvement to be found.... this head now flows nearly what a 4AG head flows :)


Image




more to come.... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby aukword1 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:15 pm

That is some heavy duty work there man, good stuff...keep it up!

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby naked8689 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:00 pm

LOVE the work MR.TOY you think it would be possible to use bag 16v springs with these heads? I know the 16v valves can be used with a little machine shop work. I'm currently doing something similar with my F head.

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby oldeskewltoy » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:27 am

naked8689 wrote:LOVE the work MR.TOY you think it would be possible to use bag 16v springs with these heads? I know the 16v valves can be used with a little machine shop work. I'm currently doing something similar with my F head.


problem here is spring bind. As was discussed in http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15683 4AGE spring bind comes in at about 1.017", where as these springs bind @ .812". To use a 16V G spring in a 2nd gen F head, the F head would need to have the spring seats machined .200". Not saying it can't be done.... just not my first choice.
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby Gino1X1 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:22 pm

oldeskewltoy wrote:
naked8689 wrote:LOVE the work MR.TOY you think it would be possible to use bag 16v springs with these heads? I know the 16v valves can be used with a little machine shop work. I'm currently doing something similar with my F head.


problem here is spring bind. As was discussed in http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15683 4AGE spring bind comes in at about 1.017", where as these springs bind @ .812". To use a 16V G spring in a 2nd gen F head, the F head would need to have the spring seats machined .200". Not saying it can't be done.... just not my first choice.



As for as using springs..... Once upon a time I've mated 2/3T OEM valve springs to a 3K-B, let some older refinery mechanic machine my KP30's 4K head's valve seats to fit "rally type" valve springs made for a BMW 316. Topi at TRS USA helped a LOT here. I've even mated OEM 3SG valve springs on mY bluetop 4AGE before I've ordered my current TRDUSA valve springs...

My point? Depends on which cam(s) you're going to use, take your time and measure/measure/measure things out. No worries by then.

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:26 pm

Gino1X1 wrote:
oldeskewltoy wrote:
naked8689 wrote:LOVE the work MR.TOY you think it would be possible to use bag 16v springs with these heads? I know the 16v valves can be used with a little machine shop work. I'm currently doing something similar with my F head.


problem here is spring bind. As was discussed in http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15683 4AGE spring bind comes in at about 1.017", where as these springs bind @ .812". To use a 16V G spring in a 2nd gen F head, the F head would need to have the spring seats machined .200". Not saying it can't be done.... just not my first choice.



As for as using springs..... Once upon a time I've mated 2/3T OEM valve springs to a 3K-B, let some older refinery mechanic machine my KP30's 4K head's valve seats to fit "rally type" valve springs made for a BMW 316. Topi at TRS USA helped a LOT here. I've even mated OEM 3SG valve springs on mY bluetop 4AGE before I've ordered my current TRDUSA valve springs...

My point? Depends on which cam(s) you're going to use, take your time and measure/measure/measure things out. No worries by then.



I really wish all my clients were as diligent as this one - My client is one who has done his research.....

He found a near perfect fit ;) - http://www.catcams.com/products/valvesp ... CT_id=6851

They are on order and should be here soon.... and their delay is why there have not been many new posts recently :cry:
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:26 pm

oldeskewltoy wrote: their delay is why there have not been many new posts recently :cry:


I've been wondering how the "F" this head has been coming along ;)
'88 Corolla All-Trac

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:31 pm

Rogue-AE95 wrote:
oldeskewltoy wrote: their delay is why there have not been many new posts recently :cry:


I've been wondering how the "F" this head has been coming along ;)


There have been a few delays... along with a few developments.... ;)

One of the delays... getting the Euro intake cam here....

Image


The other... collecting parts for the block build :shock:

Image



along with MRP rods....

Image



and MRP oil pan

Image


more to come....... :D
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: OST-044: What the "F"?

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:15 pm

9A-FE?? The fact that the rods are MRP makes me think of their stroker kits.

Forged GE pistons, or custom FE ones?

Never knew the Euro cam was different. There was also a nicer FE exhaust manifold, UK or Euro. If I recall correctly you got one for your built-up 4A-FE.
'88 Corolla All-Trac

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